| ▲ | r2vcap 15 hours ago |
| Fxxk off, to all political actors pretending this is about child protection. Protecting children is not the job of the OS, the device manufacturer, or the internet service provider. It is the parent’s job. If you cannot supervise, monitor, and discipline your child’s internet use, that is your failure, not theirs. They can provide tools, sure. But restricting adults because some parents fail at parenting is insane. That is how a totalitarian state grows: by demanding the power to monitor and control every individual. If you cannot control your children, that is your fault. And if that is the case, you should think twice before having kids. |
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| ▲ | newsclues 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| What if we had ISP police? Cops to track what people did on the internet, checking every image to ensure it's not pornographic, or every transaction online, to ensure it's not criminal! Sounds great! Let's just start by rolling out the program to target elected officials and their families as a trial. If every congressional or senate representative wants to undergo a few years of scrutiny to make sure the system works well, maybe the people will follow gladly. |
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| ▲ | curt15 11 hours ago | parent [-] | | Welcome to CCP China! | | |
| ▲ | newsclues 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | Sorry, the point I am trying to make, is bullshit laws should be tested on the group of people advocating and passing those laws, because maybe they wouldn't like the law when it applies to them. |
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| ▲ | tyler33 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| of course it is an excuse for controlling/spy on us, every children use and will keep using their parent computer/phone |
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| ▲ | mxfh 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| sure, let all retailers sell alcohol to children to test your theory. |
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| ▲ | tommica 15 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Logic does not work, because alcohol in this case is a product being purchased - Kids can go to the store and buy other things. So alcohol is more like a gambling website. | | |
| ▲ | mlrtime 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | It's also illegal to give kids alcohol, they aren't purchasing it. Does that match up with a app that is 18+? |
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| ▲ | brendoelfrendo 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Man, it's really great that we can make laws tailored to specific circumstances and not treat everything the same, too bad you never learned that. | |
| ▲ | 06867457397658 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Sure, let all retails scan your face to buy groceries. What would the regime do without their useful idiots? |
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| ▲ | cultofmetatron 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| this whole thing is part of building a mechanism to restrict free speech down the line to cover for a certain "greatest ally" of the united states. make no mistake, the "not a genocide" over the last two years and the recent "not a war" is very much related to this. |
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| ▲ | gzread 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | How does mandating every OS to have a parental controls API lead to wholesale suppression of speech? Will they mandate it to always be set to the most restrictive setting? | | |
| ▲ | cultofmetatron 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | this isn't "parental controls" this is a mandate to verify your age and subsequently identity to an external third party. can't you see how this is a slippery slop to deannonymizing the internet and being able to restrict access for reason that won't be revealed until later? | | |
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| ▲ | mihaic 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| In general, I argue for less state control on anything. But your argument seems flawed from its core. If someone is a bad parent, should we simply ignore it and let the children turn out idiots as well? And the line is often blurry, so that's why we designed schools that should compensate even for dumb parents. And, just to be clear on this topic, I think these age restriction laws are mostly bullshit, but I'm deeply against the concept of putting all the responsabiliy of raising children onto the parents. |
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| ▲ | trashb 15 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > we simply ignore it and let the children turn out idiots as well There is not a lot of safeguarding against this in the real world tbh. At the very least I think the OS or internet age verification is not the place to start improving this. | | |
| ▲ | gzread 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | There is some. Bars won't serve minors. The standardisation of parental controls law (the CA/CO one) is much closer to "bars won't serve minors" than it is to "camera drones will follow minors around to make sure they don't drink alcohol" | | |
| ▲ | nottorp 11 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Bars won't serve minors. Bars also won't display a copy of your ID on the main street like digital "think of the children" initiatives are likely to. | | |
| ▲ | FuriouslyAdrift 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | If you get caught with a fake ID they sure as heck do. Had many a friend in college with a copy of their ID on the wall of shame. | |
| ▲ | gzread 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Neither does the California/Colorado parental controls API law. |
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| ▲ | hypercube33 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | You make a good point that society may be responsible as well, however we are arguing over trying to use technology to solve meatland problems and this one never should be automated into tech, ever. It's putting burden on artists and engineers to solve things they aren't causing or really responsible for. | |
| ▲ | therobopsych 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | If not parents then the school or the local council - you can’t parent from the government down | | |
| ▲ | merlindru 15 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | what about children being fed unhealthy things? childhood obesity is dangerous and also affects their mental and physical health. let's install cameras in all supermarkets that ensure parents cannot buy unhealthy things for their children. of course, adults can continue to purchase anything they want for "themselves". but the facial scanning in supermarkets is imperative for child safety! | | |
| ▲ | array_key_first 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | This is right on the money and really highlights how short-sighted these proposals are. We're perfectly willing to destroy our privacy for things that don't matter, but then the stuff that does, we don't touch. Realistically, seeing some boobies on instagram is NOTHING compared to childhood obesity. Nothing. We're talking lifetime of suffering and early death versus boobies. |
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| ▲ | mlrtime 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The government will "parent" as a last resort : the criminal justice system. |
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| ▲ | themafia 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > should we simply ignore it and let the children turn out idiots as well? Just because you're an idiot at 18 doesn't mean you are one for life. > so that's why we designed schools that should compensate even for dumb parents. Does that actually work? > against the concept of putting all the responsabiliy of raising children onto the parents. Then how do you feel about parents requiring a license before they have a child? If you wish to invite yourself into their responsibilities shouldn't you also invite yourself into their bedroom first? | | |
| ▲ | mihaic 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | > If you wish to invite yourself into their responsibilities shouldn't you also invite yourself into their bedroom first? You're turning of question of measure (how much should society be involved in raising children) into an all or nothing debate, which I explicitly want to reject. > Does that actually work? Yes, because of mass education almost every adult you meet can read and write, something new for the last 100 years. Just because a system has (currently huge) faults, doesn't mean we should remove the system entirely. |
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| ▲ | peyton 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It’s compelled speech. A transmission of expression required by law. The argument settled in 1791. The First Amendment does not permit the government to compel a person’s speech just because the government believes the expression thereof furthers that person’s interests. | | |
| ▲ | gzread 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | It's also a consumer product regulation, of which many already exist. The government compels you to speak about the ingredients in a food product you manufacture, and we don't seem to have a problem with that. | | |
| ▲ | VLM 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | A better analogy would be regulation of addictive activities like gambling and regulation of addictive substances like painkillers. Given that the platforms being regulated were intentionally engineered to maximize addictive potential, this seems a fair and reasonable response. | | |
| ▲ | hellojesus 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | But you can just block the domains on the device or router... This law is wholly unnecessary. | | |
| ▲ | gzread 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | No you can't, because the software industry spent a lot of effort encrypting DNS and HTTP so that intermediaries can't tamper with or spy on it. | | |
| ▲ | hellojesus 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | I am a parent. The devices my child uses have root certs that allow me to decrypt traffic that must pass through my proxy to be relayed to the internet. Voila. Problem solved with current tech. |
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| ▲ | r2vcap 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I assume you live in the free world. Some socialist states in history, such as East Germany, pushed child-rearing and early education much further into the hands of the state through extensive state-run childcare and kindergarten systems. That model is gone, and for good reason. Even with schools in place, the basic responsibility for raising children still belongs to the parents. Schools can support, educate, and compensate to some extent, but they cannot replace parental responsibility. I also see far too much awful news — in my country, Korea, for example — about terrible parents harassing school teachers because their children are out of control. | | |
| ▲ | muyuu 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | i'm afraid that model is making a strong comeback in the so-called free world | |
| ▲ | mihaic 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I was born in a communist country in Eastern Europe, which is now crony capitalist. The issue is extremely complex, and all I can say in such a short paragraph is that ideologically-driven implementations are doomed to fail. It doesn't matter if you believe in "free-market", "the state", "free-speach", "socialism" or "equality", if you put these above the concrete reality of modern parenting, and how much harder it's getting compared to previous generations. |
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| ▲ | xphos 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | To be fair if the the parent is garbage there isn't anything the state today can do to truly prevent the child from being corrupted short of taking the child. We ensure that vaccine laws are difficult to enforce, we ensure that the child cannot have any privacy from the parent codified at school. At every stage we gave parents essentially absolute authority over there children with exception to maybe physical abuse. And I say maybe because even in physically abusive parent, it can be difficult for the child to advocate and escape. They can ask to be emencipated but the odds are stacked against you that you can proof you can support yourself financially. All this to say is while I think the OP is mean about it they but are not wrong. The law argues heavily the parent is supreme at least in the US. But this specific law push the responsiblity of being the supreme authority off of parents. I know you don't like that concept but I think it is very easy to argue that any other model is going to be unacceptable to a pluraity of parents. Thats not to be confused with a parent is responsible for everything there child does because thats not true. But the consquence of that thinking is that children ultimately have some responsiblity in the things they do over the parent, which I think the authors of this law would be sweating at such a statement. Personally I think the biggest issue for children is impulse control around social media and to be frank I don't think Adults are necessiarly able to deal with the onslaught of endless feed short form video content either. I don't think our brains are built against it very well. I don't know what the solution is but I think what made youtube without shorts different from tiktok is the endless scroll nature. The added friction actually protected peoples conscious and something to add a minimal friction to interactions would actually be massively beneficial to society at large | |
| ▲ | a456463 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Lmao you are a bad parent if you decide to have kids and then expect the world to take care of them for you | | |
| ▲ | zbentley 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | Okay, assuming that’s the case for the sake of argument, that’s still a huge problem right? Kids raised by bad parents suffer, which is inhumane. And if you don’t care about that, they also cause problems or costs for society at large (especially if there are a lot of them). Those are bad outcomes. So is it any wonder that we look for policy/regulatory issues to mitigate the harms of bad parenting? |
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