| ▲ | danw1979 3 days ago |
| > Unless stated otherwise, none of the published devices has passed regulatory certification, so use them at your own risk and responsibility This somewhat limits the usefulness of the hardware anywhere you need to be insured, e.g. your house, boat or van. |
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| ▲ | mcbishop an hour ago | parent | next [-] |
| Not that this is accepted by insurers or AHJs ("authorities having jurisdiction"), but one can use UL-certified components in an (open-source) _assembly_ that itself isn't UL certified. This at least supports the argument that the overall product is safe if thoughtfully designed and assembled. An example is the OpenEVSE level-2 car charger (which I had a really good experience with). |
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| ▲ | bityard 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| This is for DIYers and enthusiasts, not someone looking for an off-the-shelf box. (Also, Amazon is where most people get their solar equipment these days and you would be amazed how much of it is not UL certified either.) |
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| ▲ | ktm5j 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | DIYers and enthusiasts should still worry about their house burning down because one of these boards started a fire. An insurance company would investigate and find any excuse they can to deny payment. | | |
| ▲ | Dan_- 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Should is doing a lot of work there. The reality is most don’t. These are people who don’t understand minimum conductor size trying to DIY a solar system. | |
| ▲ | mindslight an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Insurance covers the insured's own gross negligence. This is a trope up there with believing the "warranty void if removed" stickers. The real reason this should give you pause is that you don't want your house to burn down regardless of an insurance payout. That is how your incentives remain aligned with the insurance company. |
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| ▲ | MisterTea 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > This somewhat limits the usefulness of the hardware anywhere you need to be insured, e.g. your house, boat or van. Same goes for all the random Chinese inverters people are buying and installing in their Homes, Boats and Vans. Doesn't seem to stop them. |
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| ▲ | throawayonthe 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | those are usually certified? | | |
| ▲ | stephen_g an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | The cheap stuff usually have the certification labels printed on them, but a cursory look inside usually shows breaches if you know what to look for (like we have had stuff from China where the ground wire wasn't connected to anything, but even if that's right there are things like just not having enough clearance between mains and isolated DC in power supplies etc.). So they are definitely not actually certified, they just slap the labels on anyway. Of course, there is a rising group of actually really high-quality native brands starting to come out of China - Anker were an early one of these, Xiaomi is a massive one, UGreen is really popular on Amazon etc. These kind of brands actually will be properly certified and are scary good for how cheap they are. So it's changing a lot. | |
| ▲ | Rebelgecko 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Definitely not UL (if we're talking about the $300 inverters on Amazon or AliExpress from companies like Anenji) |
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| ▲ | stephen_g an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| If you're not selling them then there isn't really any certification requirements until you start to get into the mains voltages. This all seems to be 12/24V DC stuff on the battery side and 60V DC on the solar side which comes under 'extra-low voltage' in basically every jurisdiction which is usually not really regulated because it's difficult to shock someone. The battery stuff is more risky (bringing lithium cells into the picture) but I don't think anyone should be worried by the MPPTs. |
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| ▲ | martinjaeger 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| That's basically what most software Open Sorce projects state in their licenses as well: Use at your own risk. As someone who publishes design files openly you really don't want to be liable if someone uses the hardware in a wrong way. That being said, the Libre Solar components are also meant to be used as the basis for customization (hence, called building blocks). Some of the devices are used with minor modifications in certified commercial products. Apart from boats/caravans, DC systems are used a lot for rural electrification in the global south. This is also where the communication features of Zephyr RTOS are very important. |
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| ▲ | fred_is_fred 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| How hard is it to get stuff certified by UL? I would assume expensive and time consuming but don't really know. |
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| ▲ | aeblyve 8 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I don't know much about UL but I can say that FCC certification (also technically required) for electronics can range from about $3k to something like $30k depending on what you're doing. ($3k would be for "unintentional radiator" device, i.e., not supposed to be a radio, $30k would be for "intentional radiator" device, i.e., supposed to be a radio) | | |
| ▲ | cheema33 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | FCC ensures a product doesn't cause radio interference, while UL ensures the product is safe to use and won't cause fires or electric shocks. For DIY, your primary concern is UL certification. | |
| ▲ | Joel_Mckay 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Because of customs product import rules, that FCC stamp is often not optional. Now if it was a dodgy seller, the stamp will not match the physical devices on rare occasion. =3 |
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| ▲ | Joel_Mckay 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | In general, almost all insurance companies will demand UL stamped hardware, and most mortgage/lease/commercial property requires insurance. A hobby BMS is usually a bad idea, as most kits from unknown origins prioritized cost over safety. Depending where you live, prior to roof installation there may be additional zoning and signed engineering drawing requirements. It is not hard to find UL equipment, but expect to pay about another $600 for the BMS. Yet, it is better than a house burning down, and the insurance provider denying coverage. Have a look at local certified installer companies, and make sure to get some real references in your town. Just like most HVAC companies... some installers are just over priced scams. Some folks claim https://www.pegasussolar.com/ was inexpensive, and might be worth a call. Best regards =3 | | |
| ▲ | bluGill 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | It doesn't have to be a certified install company in many places, it just needs to be inspected which most states will do for homeowners. (if your area is different contact your representative) UL or other certification is a very good idea. They can't automatically deny coverage for lack of certification, but it becomes a much harder fight for you to prove the non-certified equipment wasn't at fault. |
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| ▲ | pocksuppet 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I think expensive and time consuming, but not necessarily difficult, if the product is already safe. |
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