| ▲ | trilogic 11 hours ago |
| >How do we know which information was ground truth? No One knows that´s the point. Is truth a constant or a personal definition! From the begining of times to now, no One knows. Don´t forget, 8 billion people wake up every morning never questioning why are they here, why are they born? And they continue life like that is normal.
Start there then you understand that "AI" or how I call it "Collective Organized Concentrated Information" it may finally help us to unswer some fundamental questions. |
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| ▲ | irickt 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| We still do not know where the urge for truth comes from; for as yet we have heard only of the obligation imposed by society that it should exist: to be truthful means using the customary metaphors—in moral terms: the obligation to lie according to a fixed convention, to lie herd-like in a style obligatory for all. Now man of course forgets that this is the way things stand for him. Thus he lies in the manner indicated, unconsciously and in accordance with habits which are centuries' old; and precisely by means of this unconsciousness and forgetfulness he arrives at his sense of truth. Nietzsche. On Truth and Lie in an Extra-Moral Sense
https://web.archive.org/web/20180625190456/http://oregonstat... |
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| ▲ | CamperBob2 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Truth is just a tool that helps you make good predictions. It's increasingly clear that this is all intelligence amounts to: a constant cycle of prediction and error correction with the goal of maximizing reproductive fitness in humans or minimizing a loss function in machines. One serious problem we're facing lately is that truth is not always predictive of how systems controlled by bad-faith actors will behave and evolve. We live in a post-truth era, made possible by social networking and information technologies in general. It's not enough to "lie according to a fixed convention," as there are now multiple competing conventions. This was always the case to some extent, but these days the impedance mismatch between truth and consequences is a target for zero-sum arbitrage. The truth won't set you free if you join the wrong cult; it's more likely to bankrupt you or worse. | | |
| ▲ | pixl97 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | We are so deep in the Simulacrum regarding the complexity of our systems we could be well past the point where extinction is inevitable before we even notice it's a possibility. |
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| ▲ | 0x3f 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > 8 billion people wake up every morning never questioning why are they here, why are they born? People question this all the time |
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| ▲ | hdgvhicv 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Indeed, philosophy has been around for millennia, probably longer than the written word. | | |
| ▲ | oblio 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | It probably predates modern humans or even humans in general. |
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| ▲ | Lerc 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I'd be prepared to accept 7 billion don't. | | | |
| ▲ | trilogic 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I have met some people in my lifetime, never heard any questioning that, (even being high LOL). I don´t see anyone in social media asking that neither. Maybe we live in parallel worlds. | | |
| ▲ | 0x3f 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I'm not sure social media is a very good measure, there are many reasons that wondering aloud about this specific topic isn't really incentivized there. I'm not sure I've ever met anyone I would assume has not considered the basic questions of our existence. Unless they were severely mentally disabled, or something like that. For a more public measure I suppose you could look at religion, which seems to be a fundamental attempt at answering those questions. Most people are religious or have some kind of religious belief. | | |
| ▲ | trilogic 11 hours ago | parent [-] | | >I'm not sure I've ever met anyone I would assume has not considered the basic questions of our existence. Unless they were severely mentally disabled, or something like that. You said it yourself, you would assume they question it, meaning you are not certain. This topic is always very much tabu, and the system is built to classify automatically every One that question it as weird and not normal. Religion should be banned, as is misleading and idealogically harm people by brainwashing them. I live in Europe and was in Canada (Waterloo) for a bit. The difference of social opinion if you follow or not religion is huge, I was shocked. Growing up in Italy I can confirm that even Italy is not so brainwashed by it. | | |
| ▲ | 0x3f 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | I only assume it in a very weak sense, as in all I can really truly know is the solipsitic idea that I alone exist. In practical terms though, I'm very confident most people have considered these questions. |
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| ▲ | darkerside 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Have you raised this question with others, or do they think the same about you? | |
| ▲ | TheDong 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | "Why am I even here, what's the point?" is a deeply personal feeling question, so people aren't very inclined to talk about it with friends or post it on social media. I assure you some people do post about this on social media sometimes though, and I've discussed shades of that question with many friends over the years. I haven't yet met a single person who, when I asked them about why they thought they were here, hadn't already given it thought. This question is the subject of so many poems, so many pieces of literature, so many movies, that you're forced to confront it multiple times in school, and you're forced by your very existence to confront it once you hit certain levels of mental development. You're forced to confront it many times in your life - perhaps first when you gain a theory of mind (before age 10), again when you first truly realize you will die, again when someone very close to you dies, when you propose/marry (if you do), when you have your first child (if you do), when you get a cancer diagnosis (if you do), when you consider taking your own life (if you do)... all of these common life events force you to confront it deeply. Most people make peace with it in some form, and most realize that questioning it daily does not make a difference, you simply have to either accept an answer (whether that's "god", or "for no reason", or "I'm not sure yet, I need to check back in after I get older"), or decide that there is no simple answer, and they have to live with that. | |
| ▲ | xyzsparetimexyz 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Thats because they're not neurotic |
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| ▲ | marginalia_nu 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > No One knows that´s the point. Is truth a constant or a personal definition! From the begining of times to now, no One knows. I don't think this is a well defined question. Definitions aren't found in nature or the laws of science, but objects that we define and introduce into a logical context. There may be multiple, contradictory definitions of a word. That is fine, as long as you pick one, and you're clear about which one you picked. |
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| ▲ | noiv 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| You have truth until someone finds a counter example, which can be ignored. So, truth is just a matter of conventions shared by humans. |
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| ▲ | re-thc 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| > Is truth a constant or a personal definition! It always has been what you believed in. E.g. at 1 point the Earth was flat. Now it's round. 100s of years later maybe it's a Hexagon. The so-called knowledge and backing all come back to certain assumptions holding and that's based on the knowledge today. It's not real real reality. For all we know we could be in a game simulation and there are real real humans pulling the strings. |
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| ▲ | trilogic 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | >It always has been what you believed in That can´t be it. By that statement if I belive that I can fly that would not be the "Truth".
Therefore the "Truth" has to be a CONSTANT. | | |
| ▲ | hdgvhicv 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | can you have truth with a subjective language. I say it’s snowing, you say not, because we determine that “snowing” kicks in at different levels. Or perhaps we have different sensory inputs. If I’m facing the window and say the man has a red tshirt”, and you are facing away. Even if we agree on the definition of man, red and tshirt, you still don’t know if that’s true or not Can you believe your own senses? A car air freshener tells your nose that theres freshly cut summer hay around, but there isn't. You watch a tv and see Sandra Bullock floating in space. That’s a lie, it was movie magic. Maybe you know that, maybe you don’t. You’re not even seeing her, you’re seeing some flashing lights which convert to electrical signals your brain interprets as being true. Can you trust those signals? People hallucinate all the time. The truth is they can hear voices, even though nobody else can, because of misfiring neurons. You can probably have mathematical truth - at least as far as your universe appears to work. That truth can be tested and refined, but for day to day truth things are more nuanced. | | |
| ▲ | trilogic 11 hours ago | parent [-] | | Very well answered. Truth or not in whatever definition, it would be enough that satisfy the fundamental questions.
This is like taking the car but not knowing, why and where you going. Is like waking up but not knowing but waking up anyway.
What a story, been going on since "I was born" :) |
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| ▲ | re-thc 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > That can´t be it. By that statement if I belive that I can fly that would not be the "Truth". 1st what is to fly? You've already made assumptions i.e. beliefs elsewhere. You can definitely fly. Try it on a cliff. You might die. You might not go very far. But you can. |
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| ▲ | seanhunter 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | That’s complete nonsense. The universe doesn’t care what we think. The earth has always been earth-shaped. We can think it’s flat, spherical, “turnip-shaped”[1] but the universe doesn’t care what we think. The earth doesn’t change shape based on our perception. [1] Yes some people think this for some reason I can’t fathom | | |
| ▲ | pixl97 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The particular problem with intelligence is perception can cause agents with intelligence to alter the world around them even if our understanding of the universe is wrong. At the end of the day we are just the universe experiencing itself, not something separate. | |
| ▲ | re-thc 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > The earth has always been earth-shaped. And you never needed more than 640KB of RAM [1] right? Your "statement" is based on your knowledge today. You'd be burned for witchcraft back in the days for saying the earth was not flat. > but the universe doesn’t care what we think Assuming you know what the universe is. Your theory is based on your limited today knowledge. Someone sometime in the future could say something completely different (just like you talking about those of the past). [1] famously from 1981 |
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