| ▲ | nielsbot 5 hours ago |
| Does Iran not have the same rights of self-defense and sovereignty as the US and Israel? > The point is preventing another North Korea style nuclear blackmail state The US and Israel are currently nuclear blackmail states. The rational move for Iran to prevent itself from being bullied is to have nukes like North Korea. > In this situation it is a fair request by the US Fair if you're the US, sure. |
|
| ▲ | iknowstuff 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| 190 countries signed the non proliferation treaty for a very good reason, so no they don’t have the right to it in any sense of the word on the international stage. Especially not when they’re mass murdering protestors and funding islamic extremism left and right |
| |
| ▲ | blurbleblurble 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Okay so neither then does Israel yet here we are a country with illicit nuclear weapons that murdered scores of thousands of civilians has what standing to do what now? | | | |
| ▲ | haritha-j 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | As opposed to America who are only non-mass murdering protestors. | |
| ▲ | TheAlchemist 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | They actually do. And I say it as a European and I think the Iranian regime is as bad as it gets, and won't shed a tear if they all get executed. What recent months show us, is that it's a rough world - there are no friends. I'm rooting for European countries to accelerate their nuclear weapons programs. In an ideal world, of course I would be against. But the world is far from ideal. The current alternative is being dictated the rules by Donald Trump or Vladimir Putin. Thanks, but no. | |
| ▲ | locallost 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The US is also murdering protesters and funding Christian extremists. So what now? | | |
| ▲ | iknowstuff 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | Hikikomori 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | So around November. | |
| ▲ | locallost 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Next up, Hannibal Lector marches for change of regime in I-ran and better life for I-ranians. When asked if that's not a bit odd, he says, get back at me when my crimes are on a similar scale. |
|
|
|
|
| ▲ | concinds 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Dictatorships have no "rights". People have rights. |
|
| ▲ | 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| [deleted] |
|
| ▲ | bawolff 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > The US and Israel are currently nuclear blackmail states. Neither of these states have at any point said anything on the modern era that can be implied to be a threat to nuke anybody. Part of that is because it would be a bad strategy for them, but nonetheless "nuclear blackmail state" and "nuclear state" is not the same thing. |
| |
| ▲ | haritha-j 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Why exactly do you suppose the US gets away with carrying out military attack or threatening to carry out military attack against a new country every couple of months? | |
| ▲ | Hikikomori 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Trump had done it several times. | | |
|
|
| ▲ | azernik 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Iran signed the NPT. The NPT did not exist at the time of the US developing nuclear weapons, and it explicitly allows US (and other pre-existing nuclear powers') weapons. Israel, like India and Pakistan, simply never signed it, forgoing the international nuclear technology market as a consequence but also avoiding a treaty obligation not to develop them. |
| |
| ▲ | t-3 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | That was before the revolution. The revolutionary government still honored the deal, but that's been obviously a losing move for a while. The whole Middle East recognizes that, just look at how many countries Pakistan has sharing agreements with recently. |
|
|
| ▲ | incrudible 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| No such right exists, except in moral terms, but if you are going to invoke morals, the Iranian regime does not hold up well. So no, they do not. Perhaps you will argue that the US or Israel or Pakistan or North Korea have conducted themselves in a way where they do not have that moral right either, but that is a different debate, and either way it is moot because they do have them. |
|
| ▲ | anonnon 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > The rational move for Iran to prevent itself from being bullied is to have nukes like North Korea North Korea invaded South Korea, stole a US Navy ship (the Pueblo, which they still proudly exhibit), dug large infiltration tunnels under the DMZ, kidnapped hundreds, or even thousands people from SK (and Japan, to a lesser extent), and have assassinated, or attempted to assassinate, multiple SK heads of state, and perpetrated acts of terror like: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Flight_858 What did the US or SK do to them before their nuclear program that constituted "bullying?" |
|
| ▲ | HappyPanacea 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > Does Iran not have the same rights of self-defense and sovereignty as the US and Israel? Iran signed Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty |
| |
| ▲ | general1465 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | And US signed Budapest Memorandum. Both are equally hollow. | |
| ▲ | t-3 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The former government, a US puppet regime. Why should they honor a deal that doesn't benefit them when the US and Israel refuse to play by the rules? |
|
|
| ▲ | halflife 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| [flagged] |
| |
| ▲ | RobertoG 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Are you saying that the USA have 'human peace' as a goal? Where have you been the last 50 years? Mars? | |
| ▲ | amunozo 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | And it's precisely the US who's not acting rationally nor have any goals for human peace. | | |
| ▲ | halflife 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | So you rather have a world controlled by the Chinese axis? | | |
| ▲ | surgical_fire an hour ago | parent [-] | | "Chinese axis". In many ways I think it would be better than the world controlled by the US axis. Then again, I am not from the US nor Israel nor any muslim country. I just hope the countries I care about stay out of this Iran deal. This would allow me to quietly hope that Iran somehow wins this in the long run. I have this tendency of supporting the aggressed party in uneven conflicts. | | |
| ▲ | halflife 42 minutes ago | parent [-] | | If you are living in a western country, you are talking out of extreme privilege and zero sense. Automatically presuming that the weak side is the morally right is such a skewed an naive world view. |
|
|
| |
| ▲ | throwaway637372 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > You think that all countries should get the same rights? Do you think all people in your country should get the same rights? | | |
| ▲ | halflife 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | They do, unless they commit crimes, then these rights get severely limited (like every country in the world) | | |
| ▲ | throwaway637372 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | So then all countries should have same rights. | | |
| ▲ | halflife 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Are you saying that countries and people are the same? And I’m not entirely sure what point are you trying to make, that terror countries like the houthis should have nuclear weapons, or that people in a country should not have equal rights. | | |
| ▲ | throwaway637372 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yes countries are people and to secure their existence nuclear option should be perused. This was much better written here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47191788 | | |
| ▲ | halflife 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | It’s amazing to me that you truly think that terrorists having nuclear weapons will make the world safer. | | |
| ▲ | ta8903 an hour ago | parent [-] | | Terrorists already have nuclear weapons. Of course no country having nukes is ideal, but in absence of that possibility everyone having them is better, unless your reasoning is "I hope my side has them and the other side doesn't." | | |
| ▲ | halflife 40 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Of course that that’s my reasoning. You don’t start war out of a presumption of power equality. Wars are won by a power imbalance. When someone is attacking me obviously I want the bigger and stronger weapon. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| ▲ | ReptileMan 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| >Does Iran not have the same rights of self-defense and sovereignty as the US and Israel? No. If they wanted self-defense and sovereignty they should have become stronger not weaker after the revolution. |