| ▲ | lesuorac 6 hours ago |
| Regardless of the original contract, it's entirely appropriate for a vendor to tell the customer how to use any materials. Imagine a _leaded_ pipe supplier not being allowed to tell the department of war they shouldn't use leaded pipes for drinking water! It's the job of the vendor to tell the customer appropriate usage. |
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| ▲ | MeetingsBrowser 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| This is quite literally the norm for things with known dangerous use cases. Go look at the package on a kitchen knife and it says not to be used as a weapon |
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| ▲ | Wowfunhappy 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Playing devil's advocate: if I did in fact grab one of my kitchen knives to defend myself against a violent intruder into my kitchen, I wouldn't expect to be banned from buying kitchen knives. I'm not sure this is still a useful analogy, though... | | |
| ▲ | dwattttt 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | And if you grabbed the knife and went on a violent spree, I'd absolutely expect the knife manufacturer to refuse to sell to you anymore. The knife manufacturer isn't obligated to sell to you in either case, I'd expect them not to cut ties with you in the self defence scenario. But it is their choice. | | |
| ▲ | zephen 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | The knife manufacturer would be more than happy to continue to sell to you, except for that minor little detail that you're in jail. | | |
| ▲ | gpm 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Any knife vendor who 1. Found out you used their knives to go murdering 2. Sells knives in a fashion where it's possible for them to prevent you from buying their knives (i.e. direct to consumer sales) Would almost certainly not "be more than happy to continue to sell to you". Even if we ignore the fact that most people are simply against assisting in murders (which by itself is a sufficient justification in most companies), the bad PR (see the "found out" and "direct to consumer" part) would make you a hugely unprofitable customer. | | |
| ▲ | zephen 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Meh. Not sure why knife dealers would be assumed to be more moral than firearms dealers. See, e.g. Delana v. CED Sales (Missouri) > the bad PR (see the "found out" and "direct to consumer" part) would make you a hugely unprofitable customer. That... Doesn't happen. Boycotts by people who weren't going to buy your product anyway are immaterial to business. The inevitable lawsuits are costly, but are generally thought of as good publicity, because they keep the business name in the news. | | |
| ▲ | gpm 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | People who buy luxury kitchen knives are exactly the type of people who would choose not to buy a product because it is associated with crime. People who buy (and make) firearms are... pretty close to the exact opposite. |
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| ▲ | Loughla 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | If I shoot someone, something that is explicitly warned against in firearm safety materials that come with every purchase of a new firearm, I am no longer allowed to purchase any more firearms. | | |
| ▲ | SauntSolaire 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | There are many situations in which you can shoot someone and still be allowed to buy a gun. Also, in the cases you can't, it's generally the government stopping you, not the gun companies. | |
| ▲ | Wowfunhappy 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | That's for a different reason though--you broke the law. |
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| ▲ | moron4hire 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The specific shape of a kitchen knife would make it a particularly poor fighting knife, and knives in general are bad for self defense, due to the potential for it to be turned against the user. So, there is a good argument that such a suggestion is really in the user's best interest rather than a cynical play for the manufacturer to limit liability. |
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| ▲ | charcircuit 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | No it isn't. There are warnings, but once a knife is yours you are free to do whatever you want with it, including reselling it to someone else. The idea of terms of service of using something is not something that typically exists with physical objects that one can own. They can't take your knife away from you because you decided to use it for a medical purpose without purchasing a medical license for the knife. | |
| ▲ | medi8r 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | These knife and lead analogies don't map well to the reality of AI. Note: just talking about the analogy itself not the point you are making. Edit: hell I get downvoted and look where the knife analogy got us. A load of weird replies miles away from anything related to AI or DoD. | | |
| ▲ | MeetingsBrowser 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I agree. I hoped people would get my point, but instead are arguing about gun laws for some reason? | |
| ▲ | SauntSolaire 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | You should give it longer than an hour before you start complaining about downvotes. Or just let your comment stand on it's own. | | |
| ▲ | rezonant 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Seconded. You can't see all the up and down votes, only the balance at the moment you look, and it's not too uncommon to be negative or even dead and be upped or vouched back to life later. |
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| ▲ | kranke155 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| They also have other vendors. Claude Opus is just remarkably good at analysis IMO, much better than any competitor I’ve tried. It was remarkably good and complete at helping me with some health issues I’ve had in the past few months. If you were to turn that kind of analytical power in a way to observe the behaviour of American citizens and to change it perhaps, to make them vote a certain way. Or something like - finding terrorists, finding patterns that help you identify undocumented people. |
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| ▲ | svachalek 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Or how to best direct the power of the military against the US civilian population. They keep trying. | |
| ▲ | algoth1 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I have used chatgpt 5.2 thinking for health, gemini hallucinates a lot, specially with dna analysis. Never tried using the new claude even though i have access through antigravity. Might give it a try. Do you have any tips on how to approach it for health ‘analytical power’? |
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| ▲ | nelox 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Yep. Choosing not to renew a contract with a provider who has voluntarily excluded itself from your use case is respecting that provider's choice and acting accordingly. |
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| ▲ | anigbrowl 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | The thing is nobody is saying the government is bad for not renewing the contract. Like it or not, that's definitely the administration's prerogative. What we're seeing here is that when a vendor declines to change the terms of its contractual agreement for ethical reasons, the government publicly attacks it. | | |
| ▲ | lesuorac 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Perhaps for ethical reasons but a stated reason by Anthrophic is technical. "But today, frontier AI systems are simply not reliable enough to power fully autonomous weapons." With the other stated reason being legal. "To the extent that such surveillance is currently legal, this is only because the law has not yet caught up with the rapidly growing capabilities of AI." I don't think we should lessen Anthrophic's stance from technical/legal to ethical. Just as we shouldn't describe what the department of war is doing as "not renewing a contract". |
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| ▲ | uncletammy 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Not in software though. Clear precedent has been established via EULAs. Software companies set the rules and if users don't like, they can piss off. I don't see why it would be any different for the government. |
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| ▲ | zem 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I'm not a fan of EULAs, I think if you acquire some software anonymously and run it on your own systems you should be able to do whatever you want. however if you want software hosted on someone else's machines, or want to enter into a contractual relationship with them then government or not you should not have the right to compel work from them. | |
| ▲ | hirako2000 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | A lot of things are different when it comes to national security, and military. Congress could come up with an act it it's for national interest. The military isn't the typical End User. | | |
| ▲ | nextaccountic 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Congress could, but didn't. Instead, the federal government made threats to retaliate if Anthropic doesn't comply. |
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| ▲ | layer8 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Depending on the country, their legal value is limited: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End-user_license_agreement#Enf... | |
| ▲ | altairprime 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The government is armed and can exempt itself from prosecution either by judicial means and/or by naked force. So it isn’t just a cut and dry licensing problem. | |
| ▲ | Bombthecat 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Because it's the government? Companies need to follow the rules the government sets, if they like it or not | | |
| ▲ | layer8 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The government cannot set arbitrary rules, it has to follow the law. (And, at least with a functioning separation of powers, it cannot change the law arbitrarily.) | |
| ▲ | runlaszlorun 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Um. No, that's not how it works... |
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| ▲ | xdennis 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| > Regardless of the original contract, it's entirely appropriate for a vendor to tell the customer how to use any materials. Utter nonsense. When the US built the Blackbird, it could only use titanium because of the heat involved in traveling at that speed. But they didn't have enough titanium in the US. So the the US created front companies to purchase titanium from the Soviet Union. Do you think the US should have informed the Soviet Union what it wanted to do with the metal? |
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| ▲ | nijave an hour ago | parent [-] | | What does the customer informing the vendor have to do with the vendor informing the customer? Your comparison seems backwards |
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