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747s and Coding Agents(carlkolon.com)
52 points by cckolon a day ago | 14 comments
borzi 6 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

> For example, to add pagination to this website, I would read the Jekyll docs, find the right plugin to install, read the sample config, and make the change. Possibly this wouldn’t work, in which case I would Google it, read more, try more stuff, retest, etc. In this process it was hard not to learn things.

How is this any different than building Ikea furniture? If I build my "Minska" cupboard using the step-by-step manual, did I learn something profound?

skepticATX 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Reviewing code is absolutely different from writing it, and in my opinion much harder if the goal is more than surface level understanding.

This is what I am still grappling with. Agents make more productive, but also probably worse at my job.

thesz an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

  > I do read the code, but reviewing code is very different from producing it, and surely teaches you less. If you don’t believe this, I doubt you work in software.
I work in software and for single line I write I read hundredths of them.

If I am fixing bugs in my own (mostly self-education) programs, I read my program several times, over and over again. If writing programs taught me something, it is how to read programs most effectively. And also how to write programs to be most effectively read.

GTP 42 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

> If I am fixing bugs in my own (mostly self-education) programs, I read my program several times

I think here lies the difference OP is talking about. You are reading your own code, which means you had to first put in the effort to write it. If you use LLMs, you are reading code you didn't write.

thesz 24 minutes ago | parent [-]

If I need to change someone's code, I also read it. several times.

dongguanxianhao 43 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

>hundredths of them

Man, it would rule so much if programmers were literate and knew how to actually communicate what they intend to say.

MDCore 21 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

It's obvious from the context here what the intended meaning was. Everyone makes typos sometimes.

epgui 23 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Not everyone has English as a first language.

Brian_K_White 27 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Man it would rule so much if programmers could manage not to be assholes by default so much of the time.

It's ironic that the more ignorant one is the one calling another ignorant.

Alright I've had my fun with the name-calling. I will now explain the stunningly obvious. Not a thing anyone should have to for someone so sharp as yourself but there we are...

For someone to produce that text after growing up in an English speaking environment, they would indeed be comically inept communicators. Which is why the more reasonable assumption is that English is not in fact their native language.

Not merely the more generous assumption. Being generous by default would be a better character trait than not, but still arguably a luxury. But also simply the more reasonable assumption by plain numbers and reasoning. So, not only were you a douche, you had to go out of your way to select a less likely possibility to make the douche you wanted to be fit the situation.

Literate programmers indeed.

omoikane 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> reviewing code is very different from producing it, and surely teaches you less

Maybe he meant "reviewing code from coding agents"? Reviewing code from other humans is often a great way to learn.

tass 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I interpreted this as not as good a way to learn.

I learn the most from struggling through a problem, and reading someone’s code doesn’t teach me all the wrong ways they attempted before it looked like the way it now does.

omoikane an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I was thinking in situations where a coworker might send me something to review, and I might have thought "hmm, I wouldn't have done it like that, but this is a great way to do it too". Also, a good source of teachable code is to participate in a programming contest, and then review the repositories of the teams who scored better than me after the contest.

I agree that if I don't already know how to implement something, seeing a solution before trying it myself is not great, that's like skipping the homework exercises and copying straight from the answer books.

vorticalbox 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

This is why tutorials in programming don't really teach much because you get the finished version. Not all the wrong steps that were taken, why they failed, what else was tried.

These steps are what help you solve other issues in the future.

flyinglizard 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

This is why I still haven't embraced agents in my work but stick with halfway manual workflow using aider. It's the only way I can keep ownership of the codebase. Maybe this will change because code ownership will no longer have any value, but I don't feel like we're there yet.