| ▲ | statuslover9000 4 hours ago |
| The Sinophobic culture at Anthropic is worrying. Say what you will about authoritarianism, but China’s non-imperialist foreign policy means their economy is less reliant on a military-industrial complex. All they have to do is continue to pump out exponentially more solar panels and the petrodollar will fall, possibly taking our reserve currency status with it. The U.S. seems more likely to start a hot war in the name of “democracy” as it fails to gracefully metabolize the end of its geopolitical dominance, and Dario’s rhetoric pushes us further in that direction. |
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| ▲ | cthalupa 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| Look. I think the Chinese AI companies are doing a lot of good. I'm glad they exist. I'm glad they're relatively advanced. I don't think the entire nation of China is a bunch of villains. I don't think the US, even before the current era, is a bunch of do-gooders. But China has some of the most imperialist policies in the world. They are just as imperialist as Russia or America. Military contracts are still massive business. I also believe the petrodollar will fall, but it isn't going to be because China built exponentially more solar panels. |
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| ▲ | teyopi 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | > But China has some of the most imperialist policies in the world. Citation needed? US and allies have invaded or intervened in 20+ countries in last 20 years in the name of "western values" where values means $$$$ and hegemony. Educate me please with a comparison of what China has done to be "some of the most imperialist policies"? | | |
| ▲ | sinuhe69 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Maybe it's time to learn some facts
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_Wars | |
| ▲ | cthalupa 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Tibet
Hong Kong / Macau
Taiwan
Everything constantly in the South China Sea
Belt and Roads is effectively the Marshall Plan but even bigger - Africa being the major example, but also Eastern Europe, parts of the middle east, etc. Over 100 countries. This exact playbook is what sets up the infrastructure and reasons for military intervention at a later date - protecting your investments. |
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| ▲ | chipgap98 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| In what world does China have a non-imperialist foreign policy? |
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| ▲ | hrn_frs 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Historically speaking, he's right. China has never had an expansionist foreign policy. | | |
| ▲ | mobilefriendly 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Tibet, the Philippines, and Taiwan would like to have a word, not to mention Chinese military action in support of its North Korea puppet state, and wars with Vietnam and India. | |
| ▲ | sinuhe69 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Are you serious? Don't you know how many wars did China wage? It tried to assimilate Vietnam for 1000 years. The last large scale war against Vietnam was just 1979. In fact, China had started war with all its neighbors, with no exception. |
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| ▲ | statuslover9000 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | For example, China operates 1 foreign military base, in Djibouti. How many do you think the U.S. has in the South China Sea alone? Beyond that, how many people has China killed in foreign military conflicts in the past 40 years? How many foreign governments have they overthrown? Instead of all this, they’ve used their resources not only to become the world’s economic superpower but also to lift 800 million people out of poverty, accounting for 75% of the world’s reduction during the past 4 decades. The U.S. has added 10 million during that same time period. | | |
| ▲ | 8note 35 minutes ago | parent [-] | | why use 40 years as the example? its a pretty convenient framing to exclude the foreign governments its toppled. eg. tibet. the government in exile remains the government in exile. youd have some standing if china dropped control over its imperial holdings, rather than pretend theyre part of china |
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| ▲ | MiSeRyDeee 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | In what world does China have a imperialist foreign policy? | | |
| ▲ | cthalupa 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | The one we live in, where they have control over a wide swathe of land mass through imperialism and have actively resisted relinquishing it? The one we live in, where they are constantly surpassing international law in international waters in the South China Sea? The one we live in, where they are constantly rattling sabers at South Korea and Japan when it comes to military expansion? The one we live in, where they brutally cracked down on Hong Kong when they did not abide by the 50 year one country two systems deal, not even making it half of the way through the agreed period? The one we live in, where there is constant threat to Taiwan? It may have been a lazy post you're responding to, but anyone that is paying attention to this topic enough to talk about it is going to either say 'Of course China is imperialist, the same as every other global power' or take some sort of tankie approach to justify it. | | |
| ▲ | sinuhe69 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_Wars | |
| ▲ | mobilefriendly 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | You forgot Tibet and the Uyghurs https://worldwithoutgenocide.org/genocides-and-conflicts/gen... | | |
| ▲ | cthalupa 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | > where they have control over a wide swathe of land mass through imperialism and have actively resisted relinquishing it? Was referring to Tibet. The Uyghurs are also a major problem from a social perspective but not directly related to imperalism/expansionism/military industrial complex stuff. | | |
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| ▲ | cwillu 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | “One country two systems” is definitionally not imperialism, and given that “One China” is still an internationally recognized thing, neither is Taiwan. “Imperialism” is not a synonym for “morally repugnant government policy”. | | |
| ▲ | cthalupa 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | I can see the argument for Hong Kong. I don't agree, really, but I can understand it. Under the strictest of definitions, perhaps it isn't. But Taiwan is very obviously a totally separate country no matter what fictions anyone employs. If you are trying to talk about the thin veneer of everyone going "Uh huh, sure, China, yep Taiwan is totally part of you, wink wink, nudge nudge" as somehow making China not imperialist when Taiwan basically lives under the perpetual threat of a Chinese military invasion and having their own democratic form of government overthrown and replaced with the CCP, then... I don't really know what to say. I suppose we could argue about imperialism being more of an economic thing - in which case this all still holds up - China's investments in Africa are effectively the same playbook the US has run out in developing nations for years. The US learned it from prior imperialist nations but belts and roads is nearly a carbon copy of what the US has done in other places. But let's look at what the original poster was actually talking about - saying that China is safe because they don't have a military industrial complex because they're not imperialist. The proper word to use, if we want to get down to the semantics of it all, would be expansionist - but it's still not true. China has the 2nd largest military industrial complex in the world, and the gap is shrinking every day between them and the US. And if you were to look at wartime capacity, where China's dual-use shipyards could be swapped to naval production instead of commercial, a huge portion of that gap disappears immediately. |
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| ▲ | 8note 36 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| the treatment of Tibet and Xinjiang are entirely Han imperialism and colonisation. the one china policy is imperialism |
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| ▲ | xeckr 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I think the part about China is just about projecting alignment with the USG in hopes that this will result in Anthropic being treated more favourably by the current administration. |
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| ▲ | soundworlds 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| 100% agree. Any AI org that is that tied to a single nation's interest can only be detrimental in the long run. I know "open-source" AI has its own risks, but with e.g. DeepSeek, people in all countries benefit. Americans benefit from it equally. |
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| ▲ | hackyhacky 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > China’s non-imperialist foreign policy Really? Is China non-imperialist regarding Taiwan and Tibet? |
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| ▲ | jmyeet 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Taiwan is a matter of perspective. From the Chinese perspective, there was a civil war and the KMT lost. That's also the official position of the US, the EU and most countries in the world. It's called the One China policy. And China seems happy to maintain the status quo and leave the situation unresolved. Is it really imperialism to say that ultimately there will be reunification? Even if you accept Tibet as imperialist, which is debatable, it was in 1950. You want to compare that to US imperialism, particularly since WW2 [1]? And I say "debatable" here because Tibet had a system that is charitably called "serfdom" where 90% of people couldn't own land but they did have some rights. However, they were the property of their lords and could be gifted or traded, you know, like property. There's another word for that: slavery. It is 100% factually accurate to say that the People's Republica of China is not imperialist. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r... |
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| ▲ | nutjob2 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| > China’s non-imperialist foreign policy This is the China that is not only threatening to invade Taiwan but doing live fire exercises around the island and threatening and attempting to coerce Japan for suggesting saying it will go to its defense. Your comment is ridiculous. It reads like satire. |
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| ▲ | cwillu 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It wasn't that long ago that Taiwan claimed to be the legitimate government of China; given that China still maintains the reverse claim, it's not outrageous that it would consider an outside country's defense to be interference in an internal matter. Whether or not that claim is legitimate, it is consistent with the concept of china having a non-imperialist foreign policy, and claims regarding that need to look elsewhere for supporting evidence. | | |
| ▲ | 8note 32 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | that claim is really about not resuming a war. taiwan saying otherwise would immediately trigger an attack from the PRC. its still imperialism that china is dominating a neighbor to require it ro state a certain position, especially when its very far from the defacto reality on the ground, that taiwan is clearly separate | |
| ▲ | nutjob2 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | While that rhetoric makes sense in the context of the history and politics of China and Taiwan, they have been independently governed nations for quite a while and have very different political systems, their own armies, etc. They are de-facto separate nations if nothing else. I also note China's aggressive and violent colonization and expansive claims of the South China Sea. Taking any nation/land/sea by force is imperialist, by definition. |
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| ▲ | jmyeet 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Your comment reads like propaganda. You know who else considers Taiwan to be part of the People's Republic of China? The US, the EU and in fact most countries in the world. It's called the One China policy. There are I believe 12 countries that have diplomatic relations with Taiwan. The position of the PRC is that Taiwan will ultimately be reunified. That doesn't necessarily mean by military force. It doesn't even necessarily mean soon. The PRC famously takes a very long term view. And those islands you mention are in the South China Sea. | | |
| ▲ | 8note 30 minutes ago | parent [-] | | that is still imperialism: taking control of a colony and forcing a certain culture on its inhabitants |
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