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mschuster91 6 hours ago

No surprise there. There is so much competition these days and the market is exploding, especially on the lowest end - Dacia's Spring for example is 15.700 €, if you add Germany's subsidies of 6000 € you're at 9.700 € [1] for a brand new car, even if it isn't even made in Romania but in China instead (the fact that this is likely still making a profit despite shipping costs is insane). On the high end, BMW and Mercedes have finally caught up as well, and produce better cars for the same price point with a better support/maintenance infrastructure.

Meanwhile, what does Tesla have in production? Dated stuff on the mid to high price range, rumors are they will stop making some models entirely and a "Cybertruck" that not just looks so similar to a dumpster that raccoons confuse it with literal dumpsters [2] but is unable to ever be certified for European roads because its form is seen as a threat to road safety. So that alone has a serious impact on Tesla's sales.

Then come the never ending stories about supply chain issues especially for spare parts and the quality control issues - like, WTF, a Cybertruck is 60k? Why should people put up with delaminating glue (and why was glue used in the first place?) or rust issues [3]? So that's another dent in the sales, people don't buy lemons.

And finally, the antics of Elon himself and the company in general. The cars are nicknamed "swasticars" ever since Musk's infamous right arm salute, in the Nordic countries (that used to love Tesla) they are refusing to deal with unions for two years now [4], and here in Germany there is a big dispute related to the upcoming works council election (i.e. what y'all Americans would consider an union) [5].

There just aren't that many reasons left to buy a Tesla, and the reasons to buy an ICE vehicle are rapidly going away as well. I'd have zero issues buying a Dacia Spring or a Citroen, if only they'd add a trailer towing hitch that can be used for more than a bicycle rack.

[1] https://www.dacia.de/kampagnen/daciaelektrobonus.html

[2] https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/motoring-news/an...

[3] https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterlyon/2025/04/21/tesla-cybe...

[4] https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-sweden-strikers-tax-issues-i...

[5] https://www.dw.com/en/germany-tesla-charges-trade-union-memb...

tirant 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I would say BMW had already caught up with Tesla since they released the BMW i4 and the iX.

Both are great EVs surpassing Tesla in some aspects. Probably also the most efficient cars outside Tesla.

mschuster91 5 hours ago | parent [-]

The i4 is a damn tank, even more so the iX. For the American market both probably are a good fit, but for the German market they're just too big, we're not that SUV-crazed like the American market is thanks to the "SUV loophole".

BMWs problem, that set them back quite a bit, was the i3. A solid car on the technical side, but its design was... yuck, and it was designed for a very very limited subset of people. Too small like my 1.58m wife? Even with the seat moved to the maximum forward, uncomfortable (to outright unsafe) to drive, too high like me with 1.87, again uncomfortable to drive but at least I can reach all pedals.

small_model 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Nonsense look at VW and their cheating scandal (don't look into their history where they actually did work for the actual real Nazis), Elon's hand gesture, which was 100% not a nazi salute, is nothing compared to that. VW still sell cars ok.

rootusrootus 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Elon's hand gesture, which was 100% not a nazi salute

Yes, much like how the J6 adventure was a guided tour. The problem with assertions like yours is that both of these things were caught on video, which makes them somewhat more difficult to make plausible excuses for.

Most of us manage to go our whole lives without getting accused of making nazi salutes, not because we are magic, but because we just don't make them. It's just this one, simple trick!

small_model 6 hours ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

bryanlarsen 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Videos exonerate such examples. They definitely do not exonerate Musk.

rootusrootus 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Leave the goalposts alone, please. There is video of Elon's two gestures. If it were a photo from an instant in time, you'd have a point.

If you would like to counter with video evidence of any other politician doing a correct nazi salute on live TV, please do share.

small_model 5 hours ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

rootusrootus 5 hours ago | parent [-]

> Typical leftist low IQ trope

I gotta say, if you think I am a leftist, then you must be very, very, VERY far to the right.

lovich 5 hours ago | parent [-]

He’s trying to gaslight everyone who watched video of Musk doing a Sieg Heil salute that it wasn’t a Sieg Heil.

He’s probably at the end of the spectrum on right/left politics.

rootusrootus 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I agree. My BIL is similar, with a completely straight face (and at this point I assume full belief) he calls J6 a guided tour.

small_model 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I guess the ADL is a far right organisation too. Im done, can’t argue with brainwashed people.

yibg 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Trusting your own eyes over what someone else says is brainwashed? What kind of ass backwards assessment is this?

rootusrootus 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The ADL stood very much alone in their assessment, if you might recall. You have latched on to the one organization that agrees with you and completely ignored the rest of the world.

lovich 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I don’t need to hear ADLs opinion because I watched it with my own eyes.

I like the DARVO attempt at calling us brainwashed.

cassepipe 17 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I mean isn't hasn't he been winking to antisemitism in his tweets for some time now ? Reinstated nazi accounts on tweeter ? "Mechahitler" ?

It just seems there is a trail

zzrrt 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> don't look into their history where they actually did work for the actual real Nazis

If that kind of argument is on the table, also don’t look into Elon’s Nazi-sympathizing grandpa who moved to be able to rule over Blacks, nor his father’s illegal mining under apartheid that funded the Musk family.

mschuster91 4 hours ago | parent [-]

And his mother isn't any better when it comes to racism herself [1], and her father (=Elon's maternal grandfather) Joshua N. Haldeman was not just an outspoken Apartheid supporter, but a conspiracy peddler and White Nationalist [2][3].

Musk's entire family is rotten to the core if you ask me, it's a surprise he could put up enough of an act to credibly convince liberals for well over a decade that "he's a good one".

It's actually been a topic here on HN before but found very, very little resonance [4].

[1] https://www.aol.com/elon-musk-mother-sparks-backlash-1701291...

[2] https://www.derstandard.de/story/3000000263400/elon-musks-fr...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_N._Haldeman

[4] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

hermitcrab 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Some of this is covered in the 'Books could kill' podcast:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/elon-musk/id1651876897...

it is quite entertaining, considering the subject matter.