| ▲ | tantalor 7 hours ago |
| I'm a bit torn on this because (at least in the sci-fi utopia stories) when a critical mass of people are recording full time then interpersonal crime and anti-social behavior is strongly discouraged. It's like an honor-based culture at scale. |
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| ▲ | emptybits 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| > It's like an honor-based culture at scale. Except the basis of that culture would not be honour, would it? A critical mass of people scrutinizing and reporting others' actions might lead to a compliance-based culture. It's different IMO. i.e. intrinsic motivation to behave well (honour, morality, decency) versus extrinsic motivation to behave well (fear of unpopularity, law enforcement, mob reaction, etc.) |
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| ▲ | pibaker 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It's like how people misunderstand trust. "I trust open source software because I can review the code." No you don't. If you need to review the code then you are already not trusting it. Same deal with "honor" — the entire point of honor is you don't need eyes everywhere to look for misbehavior. You trust people to do the right thing. There is no trust in a police state. | |
| ▲ | hoten 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Right. God help you in such a society if the power goes out. | |
| ▲ | zephen 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I think you're missing the point. Or, on re-reading, the parent is missing the point. "Honor culture" or "Culture of honor" is the term for people who are thin-skinned, quick to offense, and worried more about appearances than substance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_honor_(Southern_Uni... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing It's all about a shame-based society. When someone is made to feel ashamed, they might lash out. It's practically the opposite of guilt, which is directed inwardly. At the margins, a shamed person might commit mass murder, while a guilty person might commit suicide. Before you get to the margin, both guilty people and shamed people might alter their behavior in beneficial ways, but they do it for subtly different reasons. | | |
| ▲ | emptybits 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Thanks. I had to be reminded about that phrase "honor culture" and, yes, I've heard that definition before. I was focused on how I think an "honourable person" behaves, which is ... IMO ... someone who behaves well regardless of whether or not someone is watching them. i.e. being guided by a personal moral compass, without cultural shame, guilt, government laws, religious conventions, or physical fear being primary motivators But of course, if I adopt a religion's or legal system's idea of morality as my personal compass (certainly the easiest way to go, and easily installed in youth) ... then the distinction falls apart. Cheers. | | |
| ▲ | zephen 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | > But of course, if I adopt a religion's or legal system's idea of morality as my personal compass (certainly the easiest way to go, and easily installed in youth) ... then the distinction falls apart. That's obviously part of it, but not the entirety of it. Guiding your own behavior is different than feeling compelled to also dictate others' behavior. Honor culture is usually putatively religious, yet is diametrically opposed to "judge not lest ye be judged." To be fully immersed in it is to feel personally slighted by any perceived transgressions against the normal order of things, and to have zero sense of proportion about which things are truly harmful to all of us, and which things are simply not how we would do things or prefer things to be done. |
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| ▲ | pityJuke 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Yes look at this article showing all of the wonderful anti-social behaviour prevented by smart glasses: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx23ke7rm7go (hint: smart glasses encourage anti social behaviour for online clout.) |
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| ▲ | burkaman 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Mass recording discourages social behavior, not anti-social behavior. |
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| ▲ | AlecSchueler 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Would you consider East Germany a sort of social Utopia? |
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| ▲ | thomassmith65 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It will be a delight for anyone who ever wished there existed footage of every time they vomited in public or face-planted after tripping on a cobblestone. |
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| ▲ | roughly 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| 50 years ago anti-social behavior included homosexuality. |
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| ▲ | throwway120385 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | Also included drinking from the fountain or sitting in seats or eating at a restaurant with people colored differently from you. I wonder what we're going to make "antisocial" in the next 50 years and whether or not we'll be punishing people for things we'll consider benign again in 75 years. The whole "let's surveil everything to stop all antisocial behaviors" might be going too far just like the idea that everyone should open carry to reduce crime. | | |
| ▲ | tclancy 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | Can you show your math on how an example of the opposite of what the person you are responding to you can also mean the same thing? Feel free to skip if you live in a non-Euclidian geometry, but the OP was saying such a thing would have been likely to get people killed in the past for violating a society's mores. |
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| ▲ | Etheryte 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Firstly, fear and honor are far from being the same thing. Second, we already have this in our society today via smartphones and things have not changed for the better. If anything, society is more torn than ever. |
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| ▲ | phoronixrly 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Which sci-fi utopia stories exactly are you referring to? Please remind me, because all the scifi with ubiquitous surveillace I recall are about dystopias instead. |
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| ▲ | morkalork 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Right, this is more like Black Mirror S1E3 "The Entire History of You" | |
| ▲ | tantalor 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I can't recall exactly but it may have been The Light of Other Days | | |
| ▲ | r2_pilot 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | I believe The Light of Other Days has slow-glass that you expose to a scene, it drinks it in, and then plays it back later. |
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| ▲ | bryanrasmussen 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| from my recollection in most of the stories that is the primary starting point of the narrative but as the story goes along it turns out what you have is a dystopia, which is what it looks like we would actually get. |
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| ▲ | 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| [deleted] |
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| ▲ | jibal 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| That's the opposite of honor-based, and those stories are warnings about going down that path. |
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| ▲ | toomuchtodo 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| https://www.wired.com/2013/12/glasshole/ https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Glasshole https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... |
