[flagged]

Edit: if https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47136856 is correct and you did not intend that as a slur (edit 2: which having seen https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47137004 is now clearer to me), it would be good to read some of these comments about intent vs. effects, and adjust how you post in the future:

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

--- original reply ---

If you post like this again we will ban you. There's no place for slurs on this site.

Yes, we apply that equally - I've banned the account that was slurring the opposite group elsewhere in this thread (btw, their comments won't appear to anyone who hasn't turned 'showdead' on in their account). In that case, I didn't post a reply because the account was new and already had a pattern of breaking the site guidelines. In your case, the account is well-established so we wouldn't just go ahead and ban it without replying or warning first.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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Y-bar 7 hours ago | parent [-]

Dang, I'm writing this reply as a target of antisemitic hate. I am not strictly a Jew (though I am often mistaken for one due to both name and appearance). My relatives were hunted and gassed in WW2.

The poster you are responding to is making ha joke:ish observation (probably badly communicated) that the modus operandi in the Israeli Government is to label all evidence of their crimes "antisemitic" no matter how truthful they are, no matter how many facts, no matter how vile their actions look.

Netanyahu et al have nurtured a context where there is no difference between real antisemitic hate and valid criticism. He and the people like him equate truth to antisemitism. Something which hurts many of us.

Please understand this.

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dang 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

That was not at all obvious from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47136682 alone, which gave me quite a jolt.

We have to be proactive about moderating anti-semitism on HN—which does appear, unfortunately, though of course not in every comment that someone happens to read that way. There is huge variance in how people interpret these things and we do our best to be charitable. (Also, I had better add that we do our best moderate other types of slur in just the same way.)

Let's assume you're correct. Such a point needs to be expressed thoughtfully and substantively, not snarkily in a way that pattern-matches to a slur. This ought to be clear from the site guidelines: "Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive." - "Eschew flamebait." - "Don't be snarky." - [etc.]

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

	▲	Y-bar 6 hours ago \| parent [-]
		It might not be the most substantive comment ever made. But by now it is about as classic as the Stephen Colbert quote ”reality has a well-known liberal bias”, and I bet you would not consider that quote hateful near-bannable offence, versus Republicans, right? It follows the exact pattern, and has a similar connotation. There is a large contingency in power in Israel and the west who loudly considers the truth to be antisemitism. Therefore we have a duty (BECAUSE ALL OTHER WAYS HAVE CLEARLY FAILED) as human beings to mock them. And what better way to mock them (like a court jester) than to use their words against them?

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throwaway3060 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

There are others here who would strongly disagree with this view, or the other views expressed on here. Personally, I was startled by the post in question, even as I wondered what was actually meant by it. We all have to coexist on here.

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Y-bar 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Were you more or less startled by reading it here or hearing those words from the mouth of Itamar Ben-Gvir, Israel's Minister of National Security since 2022?

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dang 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Here's a tip I learned the hard way: you can't assume that other commenters have seen or heard the same things that you have; and when they have, you can't assume that they have the same subset in working memory.

As I mentioned above, I was also startled by that post, because the obvious pattern-match was to something nasty.

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6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

[deleted]

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Y-bar 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Sorry, didn’t know that was your alt account.

	▲	dang 5 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Hmm - out of curiosity, what did I say or do that made you post this?

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ivan_gammel 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

No. Your message is. A lot of people commit mortal sin of logical fallacy by extending the responsibility for actions of certain group of people to everyone sharing with them ethnicity or religion. It‘s the stupidity worth of the strongest condemnation given the context.

It‘s not jews committing war crimes in Gaza, it‘s zionists. It‘s not muslims or Palestinians planning and executing terrorist attacks, it‘s religious extremists and far right nationalists. When there will be common understanding of this simple truth, fighting the root causes will be much easier.

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ycombinatrix 14 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I think GP was making a joke - since zionists claim any anti-zionist behavior is anti-semitic.

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ivan_gammel 14 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Then I apologize without retraction.

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SauciestGNU 11 hours ago | parent [-]

Good instinct to fight against antisemitism, because there is a lot of it. Unfortunately the Israeli government lobs accusations of antisemitism at its (legitimate) critics frequently, enough so to muddy the waters between actual antisemitism and criticism of the Israeli state.

	▲	ivan_gammel 9 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Nah, let’s not let them to set the narrative. It is not antisemitism to criticize Israel and I do not care what Israeli or my (German) government says about it.

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jquery 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Yep. It's used as a shield for the worst humanity has to offer.

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halflife 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Zionism is the idea of self determination of Jews in their homeland. You separate Jews from zionists. How would you call the Palestinian self determination movement, would you separate it from the rest of the Palestinians? Would you call that group for committing war crimes?

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glenstein 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Their message didn't make any of the extrapolations that you're suggesting and I don't think that the post itself does that either.

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ivan_gammel 13 hours ago | parent [-]

The message is ambiguous. It can be interpreted the way I read it.

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glenstein 12 hours ago | parent [-]

I disagree that it's ambiguous, and I think how you choose to interpret it comes down to the difference between charitable interpretation and bad faith.

	▲	ivan_gammel 9 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Whether you agree with it or not, does not matter. It is ambiguous due to a simple fact that I did not had the choice of interpretation in my mind. It is how I understood it and it differs from your understanding. The author should have been more clear.

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blitzar 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> why is this flagged ?

Because flaggers deem it to be anti-semitic

> committing war crimes in Gaza, it‘s zionists

This is 1) extending responsibility for actions of induviduals to everyone sharing with them ethnicity or religion 2) a display of anti-semitic bigotry

Otherwise it, like most tech heavy investigations, showcase how much useful information there is fly around out there in the air just waiting to be hoovered up - and (althought not the case here) YC funded companies happen to be at the frontlines of such work

	▲	SAI_Peregrinus 11 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		Zionism isn't an ethnicity or a religion.
	▲	GuinansEyebrows 7 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		whether or not you agree that zionism is intrinsically jewish or not, it would serve you to understand that the poster you're arguing against does not believe that zionism is intrinsically jewish, and thus, you're talking past them.

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mothballed 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

But it's not all zionists committing war crimes in Gaza, it's the IDF. And it's not all IDF members, only some individuals. And its not all of those some individuals, only some of their brain and trigger finger. And it's not all the time, only some of the time.

We mustn't generalize.

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ivan_gammel 13 hours ago | parent | next [-]

You are surprisingly right. I know people who served in IDF and would prefer to have nothing in common with those criminals. Generalizing to them would be wrong. It is not voluntary service, different people are required to serve. But people aside, is IDF as institution rotten? It is not generalization to say „yes“, when such things happen. An institution is an entity with the agency to prevent such things and not only did it fail, it covered up. Is Israeli government complicit? Hell, yes, same reason.

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1718627440 13 hours ago | parent [-]

There were people in the German army (Wehrmacht) who wanted to have nothing in common with those criminals. Some even tried to kill Hitler and get rid of the regime.

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orwin 13 hours ago | parent [-]

Not the majority though, else the wehrmacht would have done less war crimes.

	▲	1718627440 12 hours ago \| parent [-]
		I think this depends on whether you draw the boundary at "refuses to do X even when killed for it" or "wouldn't have done X on their own".

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throwaw12 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

IDF is an army of Israel, not some unknown militant group.

Israel is a state, as they call "democratic", which elected officials who have control to stop these crimes, but not stopping deliberately.

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lostmsu 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I believe religion is a reasonable extension. Some of them explicitly call for murdering unbelievers.

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ivan_gammel 13 hours ago | parent [-]

it‘s „some“, not „all“. Religious extremism by definition.

	▲	lostmsu 13 hours ago \| parent [-]
		I was talking about religions, not individuals.