| ▲ | Stop Killing Games update says EU petition advances(videocardz.com) |
| 70 points by LorenDB 2 hours ago | 24 comments |
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| ▲ | lopatin 34 minutes ago | parent | next [-] |
| Can someone please ELI5? I've heard much about it but still, with all the drama, I still don't get it. SKG is an initiative that will force game publishers to keep a game online, provided that people have paid for it, and the publisher is not bankrupt? Is that right? What does it have to do with democracy? |
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| ▲ | TimFogarty 24 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | No, they do not want to force publishers to keep a game online. The initiative just wants developers to provide a way for users to keep using a game after it has gone EOL by allowing users to run their own servers or by no longer requiring internet access. See the FAQ[1]: > Aren't you asking companies to support games forever? Isn't that unrealistic? > A: No, we are not asking that at all. We are in favor of publishers ending support for a game whenever they choose. What we are asking for is that they implement an end-of-life plan to modify or patch the game so that it can run on customer systems with no further support from the company being necessary. We agree that it is unrealistic to expect companies to support games indefinitely and do not advocate for that in any way. Additionally, there are already real-world examples of publishers ending support for online-only games in a responsible way, such as: > 'Gran Turismo Sport' published by Sony > 'Knockout City' published by Velan Studios > 'Mega Man X DiVE' published by Capcom > 'Scrolls / Caller's Bane' published by Mojang AB > 'Duelyst' published by Bandai Namco Entertainment I'm not sure what the question "What does it have to do with democracy?" is referring to. Some people find that no longer having access to video games they paid for isn't fair so are petitioning their governments for consumer protection against that. [1] https://www.stopkillinggames.com/faq | | |
| ▲ | lopatin 18 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Thanks, that clears it up. The democracy thing was referring to other comments in this post. |
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| ▲ | yndoendo 4 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | A solution to the problem was developed in the late 90s / early 2000. Games allowed for personally hosted servers and the ability to connect to them. This is how original Call of Duty, Counter Strike, Quake III, Doom 3, Enemy Territory, and more worked. A person did not have to create a user account with the company that produced the title. Modern day games require an user account for their services and you are only allowed to connect to their servers without being able to self-host. Self-hosting was very beneficial during dial up days because the local ISP could run the server to reduce connection latency. Games like Battlefield Bad Company 2 is a great example of how bad it has become. | |
| ▲ | LorenDB 23 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | SKG will prevent game publishers from making online games unplayable. This could be as simple as releasing the server code and adding a setting to allow custom servers. Basically the official servers can die, as long as unofficial servers can be used instead. | |
| ▲ | NooneAtAll3 3 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > What does it have to do with democracy? is this going to be the next "think of the children" question? what's the point of mentioning this? | |
| ▲ | bsjaux628 9 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | What SKG movement want, in short terms, is that game developers/publishers of live service games and online only games be forced, once the games is no longer supported, to provide tools, software, executables to the community to keep the game going. They are using the banner of consumer protection and a public EU initiative to force the EU politicians to debate and come up with a solution. The drama mostly stems from the fact that the head of the movement is a gamer with no knowledge of either software development or game development, so he has a VERY simplistic view of how a game server-client works and thinks that developers just have a .exe executable running from a raspberry pi that can be uploaded to github and that's it. When people with knowledge call out that there are TONS middleware used to develop a game with their own licenses and that a server nowadays is more than a single machine, he just says: well, this movement is no retroactive so new games will be develop with that in mind and automatically every software vendor will be fine with distributing their code so that everyone can keep playing. While I support the spirit of the movement, this will ultimately end up with a warning label in a box because real life has more nuances. | |
| ▲ | lyu07282 32 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Is that right? That's the lie being told to stop stop killing games, so no. |
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| ▲ | HiPhish an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I think Stop Killing Games is more important than just "oh noes, they took my toys away". Looking back, video games have been the gateway to computing in more than one one way. Before home computers people had game consoles (which were cheaper than computers) or arcades. Before iTunes and app stores there was Steam. Before the modern smartphone apps there were Wii channels. Maybe in some cases the games came technically later, but they were the initial contact for the broad masses. What I'm getting at is that it has usually been through games that practices in general computing have been established. If Stop Killing Games is successful it will have much bigger effects on general computing. And I believe that this is why you keep the same false accusations getting repeated over and over again (e.g. saying that SKG would require publishers to keep supporting a game forever). I know it's said not to attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, but at some point the pattern becomes too clear not to notice. All of big tech stands to lose eventually if SKG succeeds. |
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| ▲ | gchamonlive an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Have you played The Talos Principle 2? Yep, games are toys! It's nothing more than that. What we fail to realise in our industrial society is that toys are a fundamental piece of our culture, they enable learning lots of different skills that wouldn't be possible in the "real world", they foster creativity, problem solving, bonding and cooperation... Toys are just toys, and yet they are the most important things we have. I honestly think the technological progress catalyzed by games is a byproduct, a huge one, but not central to the industry. We only think technology is the most important thing because we live in a world in which overvalues technical prowess in lieu of culture. | | |
| ▲ | imiric 15 minutes ago | parent [-] | | I agree with most of what you said, but describing video games as nothing more than toys does a disservice to the medium. Yes, video games can be educational and entertaining, just like real world toys, but they can also be artistic and communicate stories. They're the most expressive and engaging storytelling device we have ever invented. Not all games are all of these things, and there's nothing wrong with games that only focus on entertainment, but those that combine all of these aspects successfully are far more impactful and memorable than any other piece of media. |
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| ▲ | lyu07282 35 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | There are a huge number of people who deluded themselves into reflexively protecting the interests of hundred billion+ dollar industries. No malice required for that, they also aren't stupid, propaganda works. |
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| ▲ | preommr an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Advances to round 2/7 to be able to do a powerpoint presentation so that companies will, at best, be forced to put some pointless label as a legal loophole, that consumers will promptly ignore because everyone will have it and it'll be meaningless. |
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| ▲ | krige an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Thanks, "Thor". |
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| ▲ | intothemild an hour ago | parent [-] | | I would hope that he has either changed his tune (unlikely) or is fuming (likely) |
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| ▲ | AuthAuth an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| This really is the white pill young people need to not hate democracy and its probably the worst most unlikely one to pass through. |
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| ▲ | zamadatix 31 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | I really need to get pill-pilled so I can keep up with what people are saying these days. From Urban Dictionary: > 1: being aware of a difficult situation or position and having a fighting "can do" attitude and not giving up, plus accomplishing said thing(s) within the difficult situation. 2: being optimistic, not merely through gut feelings but via having thought about a situation enough to understand how to get through it successfully > Tom: How'd you get to the top of this business in just a few months of work? > Jim: Working hard, working correctly, and taking the white pill. | |
| ▲ | petcat an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Gamer Rage has always been the worst political hill to die on. |
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| ▲ | cadamsdotcom 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Is democracy working? Don’t want to get my hopes up, but I think this might be. |
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| ▲ | jacinabox an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Could be, if you can set up a millions of dollars regulatory apparatus to keep online some really old MMOs for the 100 people worldwide who want to play them, there's really nothing you can't regulate. | | |
| ▲ | prartichoke 36 minutes ago | parent [-] | | This is a common mischaracterization of stop killing games. It does not propose publishers keep games online indefinitely, but to provide the bare minimum to the community to host them if they decide to shut the servers down for good. If the 16-year-old Unturned dev could do it, so can AAA studios | | |
| ▲ | 1123581321 8 minutes ago | parent [-] | | What is the bare minimum they are seeking? It seems like advocates would give varying answers depending on their technical ability. |
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| ▲ | lyu07282 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | As long as people are sufficiently misinformed and politically uneducated, they believe in democracy working. So it's possible yeah! | |
| ▲ | joe_mamba 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | >Is democracy working? If only it would actually work that easy for democracy(people's will) to control the actual important things of society that fuck us, like housing, money printing, immigration, tax % and where that money goes to, healthcare, foreign aid, jailing epstein clients, etc. Imagine if democracy actually worked. |
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