| ▲ | et1337 5 hours ago |
| This video is a really cool dive into EUV for the uninitiated (me) https://youtu.be/MiUHjLxm3V0?si=kEPSicC2WXYhcQ6L |
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| ▲ | greggsy 6 minutes ago | parent | next [-] |
| Asianometry has half a dozen or so videos of you want some really deep dives on the tech and industry (with sources, since we’re on HN) |
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| ▲ | eddyg 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Or this video, which came out before Veritasium's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2482h_TNwg |
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| ▲ | Hikikomori 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | https://youtu.be/NGFhc8R_uO4 Or this presentation which came out way long ago. | | | |
| ▲ | EnPissant an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | I thought this video was a lot better than the Veritasium video. The Veritasium video was awkward. I think they tried to follow the formula from the (excellent) blue led video that performed so well, but it just didn't work. |
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| ▲ | hinkley 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The whole “exploding tiny drops of metal” in the middle of this is just Loony Toons. This machine is literally insane and two of the companies I am long-long on would be completely fucked without it. |
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| ▲ | patmorgan23 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | You forgot WITH LASERS, and IN A VACUUM | |
| ▲ | atonse 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yes it was crazy when I first heard about it "wait what? they shoot it in mid-air?" and that was before I found out they did that like 30k times a second. But now 100k times a second apparently. Humans are amazing. | | |
| ▲ | hinkley 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | You have a machine that’s basically a clean room inside and one of the parts is essentially electrosputtering tin but then throwing all the tin away and using the EM pulse from the sputter to do work. Oh and can you build it so it can run hundreds or thousands of hours before being cleaned? Thanks byyyyyyyyeeeeee! | | |
| ▲ | lelandbatey 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | The inside of those machines are far, far cleaner than the inside of any clean room ever entered by a human. They have to be molecularly clean. | | |
| ▲ | b3orn 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Which isn't easy considering they explode tin droplets in the machine. I think that's the point the other commenter wanted to make. | | |
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| ▲ | flowerthoughts 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > We are going to spray expensive stuff in an extremely fine and precise line. Then we're going to shoot a laser at each droplet. < Why?! > To make a better laser. < Yes, of course you are. > 100,000 times per second. < [AFK, buying shares.] | | |
| ▲ | adgjlsfhk1 33 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Don't forget that they are hitting each droplet 3 times. | |
| ▲ | hinkley 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I have shares in one of their biggest customers, and one of their customer’s biggest customers. We are quickly leaving the realm of dependent variables still looking anything like diversification. | | |
| ▲ | hzwanip a minute ago | parent [-] | | > We are quickly leaving the realm of dependent variables still looking anything like diversification. What does that mean? |
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| ▲ | seanalltogether 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The thing I didn't understand after watching that video was why you need such an exotic solution to produce EUV light. We can make lights no problem in the visible spectrum, we can make xray machines easily enough that every doctors office can afford one, what is it specifically about those wavelengths that are so tricky. |
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| ▲ | KylerAce 5 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | The issue isn't in generating short wavelength light, it's in focusing it accurately enough to print a pattern with trillions of nanoscale features with few defects. We can't really use lenses since every material we could use is opaque to high energy photons so we need to use mirrors, which still absorb a lot of the light energy hitting them. Now this only explains why we need all the crazy stuff that asml puts in it's EUV machines to use near x-ray light, but not why they don't use x-ray or higher energy photons. I believe the answer to this is just that the mirrors they can use for EUV are unacceptably bad for anything higher, but I'm not sure | |
| ▲ | 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | zozbot234 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | There is such a thing as X-ray lithography, but it comes with significant challenges that make it not really worth it compared to EUV. | | |
| ▲ | bpavuk 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | I'd like to hear more about these challenges | | |
| ▲ | magicalhippo an hour ago | parent [-] | | As I understand it, primarly because due to the high energy level of x-rays, light x-ray interacts very differently with materials[1]. Primarily they get absorbed, so very difficult to make mirrors or lenses, which are crucial for litography to redirect and focus the light on a specific miniscule point on the wafer. The primary method is to rely grazing angle reflection, but that per definition only allows you a tiny deflection at a time, nothing like a parabolic mirror or whatnot. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-ray_optics | | |
| ▲ | newswasboring an hour ago | parent [-] | | All of these problems or equivalent still exist in EUV. Litho industry had to kind of rethink the source and scanner because it went from all lenses to all mirrors in EUV. This is also why low NA and high NA EUV scanners were different phases. As I hear it, the decision had large economic component related to Masks and even OPC. |
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| ▲ | on_the_train 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | It really is the specific wavelength. Higher or lower is easier. But euv has tricky properties which make it feasible for Lithography (although just barely it you have a look at the optics) but hard to produce with high intensities. | | |
| ▲ | formerly_proven 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Specifically, what makes x-rays easy to generate are these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Characteristic_X-ray In essence, smashing electrons into atoms allows you to ionize the inner shell of an atom and when an electron drops down from an outer shell, the excess energy is shed as high-energy photons. This constrains the energy range of X-ray tubes ("smash electron into metal") to wavelengths well below 13.5nm. (These emission lines are also what is being used in x-ray spectroscopy to identify elements) | | |
| ▲ | s0rce 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | You can also generate broad spectrum bremsstrahlung radiation easily, this is widely used for medical X-rays. |
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| ▲ | YetAnotherNick 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Any source to this? I am hearing this for the first time. | | |
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| ▲ | culi 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Here's your link without the surveillance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiUHjLxm3V0 |
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| ▲ | hinkley 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Okay this is weird. > The key advancements in Monday's disclosure involved doubling the number of tin drops to about 100,000 every second, and shaping them into plasma using two smaller laser bursts, as opposed to today's machines that use a single shaping burst. This is covered in that video. Did they let him leak their Q1 plans? |
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