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| ▲ | sincerely a day ago | parent | next [-] | | Pretty sure they are implying that the actions of the current president/administration are causing people to re-evaluate US dependencies. I don't really understand the first half | | |
| ▲ | fifilura a day ago | parent | next [-] | | I think in the first part they are implying that there are very few independent companies to turn to. (I also prefer comments that are clear without insinuations). | | |
| ▲ | abirch a day ago | parent | next [-] | | Precisely like code Clarity > Cleverness
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| ▲ | Gormo a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | What about all of the long-tail providers that are often listed on lowendbox.com and similar sites? |
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| ▲ | stavros a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Ahh, the sales rep is Trump, that makes sense, thank you. I thought Jacques meant they had lobbyists somehow. | |
| ▲ | Tadpole9181 a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | 1. There's no meaningful European competition. 2. Trump is making everyone scared to use US hosting. So they're leveraging for extra profits. | | |
| ▲ | wongarsu 25 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | That is indeed what the comment seems to be implying. "No meaningful European competition" might be a bit too strong. There are many great EU hosters. OVH, Netcup, Scaleway, Strato, Ionos, Exoscale, to name a few. But Hetzner is probably the biggest and has the best name recognition. Doesn't hurt that their prices are among the best in the industry | |
| ▲ | hsuduebc2 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The ridiculous prices of memory surely does not help. |
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| ▲ | capitol_ a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | That Trump makes us very motivated to stop relying on American tech. | | |
| ▲ | okanat a day ago | parent | next [-] | | This doesn't solve the issue that globalism caused. Europe doesn't make DRAM nor has the know-how to quickly bring factories online which usually take 10+ years. We are tied to American economy and if AI companies start driving prices up not only DRAM but basically everything will become more expensive. | | |
| ▲ | bootsmann a day ago | parent | next [-] | | America doesn't manufacture DRAM either, this is all South Korea and Taiwan. | | |
| ▲ | petcat a day ago | parent | next [-] | | ??? Micron has DRAM megafabs in both Idaho and New York state. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micron_Technology | | |
| ▲ | input_sh a day ago | parent | next [-] | | They don't "have them", they're building them. https://www.micron.com/us-expansion/id > Micron has already achieved key construction milestones on its first Idaho fab with DRAM output scheduled to begin in 2027. https://investors.micron.com/news-releases/news-release-deta... > Production is expected to start in 2030 with the fabs ramping throughout the decade. Until they start outputting DRAM in any meaningful quantity, they're not relevant. | | |
| ▲ | ac29 a day ago | parent | next [-] | | > They don't "have them", they're building them. According to wikipedia Micron Fab 6 in Virginia started production in 1997 and is still operating | | |
| ▲ | input_sh 20 hours ago | parent [-] | | > "in any meaningful capacity" Building a factory is one thing, they can have 50 of them built, but that doesn't mean much if all 50 together amount to like 0.1% of the company's output. Once those factories scale up to 1-2%, then we can start considering that they've actually built a domestic supply, but that's a whole different goal than simply building the factories. Building factories is trivial. Making them output something is also "trivial". Scaling that up to a meaningful amount is a whole different, much harder goal to accomplish. | | |
| ▲ | direwolf20 19 hours ago | parent [-] | | Are you sure? I'd think producing any RAM chips at all is much harder than scaling up a working production process. | | |
| ▲ | input_sh 15 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yes, I'm pretty confident you don't know anything about manufacturing at scale. Say you use a magic wand and build 15 new state-of-the-art factories tomorrow. Who's gonna run them? Does any location in the US have enough qualified workers that can simply take over and produce RAM in them from day 1 with no major fuckups? No, you need a ton of time to teach thousands of people how to run those 15 factories. To even begin to teach people, you need to have 1 factory up and running. That 1 factory is at first going to be run by some of their existent workforce that they temporarily migrate from South Asia. Only then can they start to teach local populace how to run those factories on their own. This is why it's much cheaper to simply build an additional one in South Asia than it is to build more than one in a whole new location. South Asia already has a bunch of workers that know what they're doing because they've been doing it for a long time. Build a new factory, promote some of your existent workforce up the chain, fill the lowest positions with fresh graduates that are gonna be equally good every year and you're good to go. It's nowhere near that simple in a brand new location, where even the most optimistic scenario would take longer than a decade to produce a meaningful amount of output. | | |
| ▲ | subw00f an hour ago | parent [-] | | Wow, so it's almost like the workers are a key piece in producing any value at all. |
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| ▲ | VWWHFSfQ a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | It looks like it's still a big difference between how the US and EU are responding to the chip supply wars. The US is actually building their own manufacturing capabilities domestically while the EU is apparently doing nothing, which is unfortunate. | | |
| ▲ | bootsmann a day ago | parent [-] | | Infineon is _opening_ its fab plant in Dresden this year which was supported by around 1bn euros from the EU equivalent of the CHIPS Act. They started building this fab in 2023, while TSMC, who started building its fab in the US right after covid just delayed the opening to 2027 | | |
| ▲ | petcat 21 hours ago | parent [-] | | The fab that Infineon is building is vastly smaller in scale, and their tech isn't really relevant to this discussion. For instance, it doesn't produce CPU/GPU microchips or DRAM. Also only 300mm wafer technology, which isn't competitive for anything except for some narrow industrial use-cases. Glad to see the EU is doing it, but it's a completely different thing. | | |
| ▲ | addaon 21 hours ago | parent [-] | | Pretty much everyone is on 300 mm wafers for everything now, and has been for a while. Are you perhaps reading this as 300
nm process (which would usually be called 0.3 micron)? |
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| ▲ | bootsmann a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Are those plants still functional after CHIPS act was axed? I thought they mainly produce in Asia now. | | |
| ▲ | petcat a day ago | parent | next [-] | | Well first of all, the CHIPS Act was not "axed", it is federal law passed by an overwhelming bipartisan majority of the House and Senate. It would take a complete reversal of congress to repeal it and it's still very popular among both parties. Where do you get your information from? | | |
| ▲ | bootsmann a day ago | parent | next [-] | | > Well first of all, the CHIPS Act was not "axed", it is federal law passed by an overwhelming bipartisan majority of the House and Senate. It would take a complete reversal of congress to repeal it and it's still very popular among both parties. DOGE cut basically all staff from the CHIPS Program Office, congress passed the money but Trump is choosing to turn it into a slush-fund the admin spends on industrial policy (such as buying a stake in Intel). Wolfspeed went into bankruptcy in part because the admin delayed CHIPS funding agreed by the previous admin [1] (it's unclear whether they received the grant now that they have left it). [1] https://www.ft.com/content/4aac09f9-19df-401a-9ab3-ef14a47bb... | | | |
| ▲ | a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
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| ▲ | VWWHFSfQ a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | > after CHIPS act was axed This is news to a lot of Americans! The 2022 CHIPS and Science Act is codified federal law. I think a lot of states (Arizona, Idaho, New York) would be very interested to learn that the funding for the infrastructure that they are already building has somehow gone poof. | | |
| ▲ | voganmother42 an hour ago | parent [-] | | Intel is now partially government owned(10%), they got rid of some of the milestones. The current administration has been extremely poor about communicating changes as well as constantly yanking funding (or threatening to) for projects - the chances of funding going poof are higher than ever. |
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| ▲ | petesergeant a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Currently, 100% of leading-edge DRAM production occurs overseas, primarily in East Asia.[0] They make DRAM for cars, not computers, in the USA. They've promised they'll bring manufacturing onshore any time soon, which effectively means they'll wait until Trump forgets about it. 0: https://www.nist.gov/news-events/news/2025/06/president-trum... | | |
| ▲ | zozbot234 a day ago | parent [-] | | That's not how it works, DRAM substrate (the actual chip that contains memory cells) is shared. It's only the packaging that differs. |
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| ▲ | okanat 20 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | American companies are driving global economy insane. Currently the American political administration sides with the AI companies since it gives the inspiration that the economy is doing well. If things start to go side ways, the US government can put pressure on its local companies like Micron to supply other fields. Europe doesn't have local manufacturers. So it cannot exert control over the manufacturers to keep its internal / strategic market sane. All European hardware manufacturers have to put up with and compete in irrationality inflated prices. | |
| ▲ | spockz a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | And China with IXMT. |
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| ▲ | adrian_b a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Europe has stopped making DRAM relatively recently (Qimonda). This should have not been allowed to happen. | | | |
| ▲ | x_may a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Isn’t there also basically 0 American DRAM? | | |
| ▲ | UltraSane a day ago | parent [-] | | Micron Technology, Inc. is an American semiconductor company that manufactures computer memory | | |
| ▲ | input_sh a day ago | parent [-] | | They don't produce them within the US. They're building some factories to do so in the future, but as of now their output is 0. | | |
| ▲ | okanat 18 hours ago | parent [-] | | However, the US government has / can have control over Micron's production. They are headquartered in the US. They have the intellectual property and know-how to erect a vertically integrated supply chain. Europe doesn't have this strategic investment. |
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| ▲ | dangus a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | The newfound desire to move away from American cloud providers isn’t related to pricing, it’s about the perception of growing instability within the American government, the perception of deteriorating freedom of speech, and the perception of an increasingly non-neutral business environment. E.g., if I’m running a business in the US and I don’t kiss Trump’s ring (and pay bribes), if he becomes dictator for life in 2028, all bets are off for my business. Both the EU and USA import the majority of their computer equipment, and the USA is placing heavy and unpredictable tariffs on those goods. It’s hard to argue that a business should bet that data centers will be cheaper in the US than in the EU if Trump is the last democratically elected president. The most stable places to do business in 2026 are probably the EU and China. |
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| ▲ | UltraSane a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | You waited far too long. |
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| ▲ | jacquesm a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | That the USA is no longer seen as a stable partner for the long term and that Trump with his idiotic policies and tariffs is driving sales for the few EU hosting scale-ups that are not somehow owned by America. |
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