The issue with kinesis and all those nice small symmetrical keyboards is that not every alphabet is as short as English.

Russian, for example, has 33 letters.

So if you’re someone like that, you really want that ordinary macbook-like number of keys = larger non-symmetrical right half.

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As for the ortholinear keyboards, I spent a few months with the latest kinesis but sold it eventually: not that comfortable.

Just clench your fist and you will see that not all your fingers are moving in straight parallel lines. I don’t buy the ortho logic at all. I would argue that left half of the ordinary keyboard is even more ergonomic in this sense.

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Also don’t bother with dvorak, qwerty is 80/20 pareto stuff. Just isn’t worth it compared to returns.

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Tdlr; split, traditional layout https://uhk.io/ is my best purchase: use it for almost 5(?) years. Modded it for swappable switches, lubed, what have you.

Don’t waste money for uhk riser, not worth it. Small plastic built-in legs are more than enough.

Wooden palm rest is a must though.

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Previously was a big fan of microsoft split ergonomics (2nd gen and sculpt later)

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BTW if you use multiple OS, map the ctrl key on windows/linux to the same place where command is on mac. Shortcuts will be the same physical keys, also it is much more comfortable to have this pressed with a thumb instead of a pinky.

Though you would want to buy a rounded key cap (like a spacebar) of you use a mechanical keyboard — it is painful to press the keycap corner with a thumb if it is not rounded.

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mailund 16 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

the uhk looks fairly close to what I've been looking for, just wish it had ortholinear keys.

how's the build quality? I got a split keyboard a while ago from a small producer, and the case was completely built out of 3d printed plastic which caused it to be pretty flimsy and kept sliding around due to the light weight.

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ryanm101 19 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

On mac I just use settings to Map it so alt is still alt on nix but on mac it cmd

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Marsymars 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Also don’t bother with dvorak, qwerty is 80/20 pareto stuff. Just isn’t worth it compared to returns.

I wouldn't specifically recommend other people learn Dvorak, but I switched to it when I was in my early teens (~25 years ago) and I feel pretty great about the returns I got from that.

My kid sure isn't getting qwerty as their default keyboard.

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waynesonfire 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I had the same experience, I learned it early too. My thinking was, if I'm going to be typing my whole life, I might as well do it with the bee's knees.

I also swap ctrl+caps. That caps key real estate is just too good.

It's pretty wild, I can _ONLY_ touch type dvorak. I couldn't tell you which keys are which looking down at the keyboard. And I'm fast. I'm so fast I don't even need to vibecode.

	▲	jimbob45 5 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		I can push 130WPM with some serious warmup on QWERTY. Even still…I can feel its inadequacy. The semicolon sitting unused under my pinky is just such a massive waste. The period there instead would be a game-changer.

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sesm 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'm a native speaker of Russian, using Ergodox as my only keyboard for over 5 years. Here is my layout: https://configure.zsa.io/ergodox-ez/layouts/XEYyW/latest/0

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__MatrixMan__ 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think there's something to the ortholinear thing, I find it quite uncomfortable to hit z, x, and c on a standard row-staggered keyboard.

Also It's nice to have a 10-key at home row (5 goes with k).

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eru 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Dvorak works really well for me. (Though you might want to pick Colemak or Neo2 these days.) I use Dvorak on both my Kinesis Advantage and on 'normal' keyboards like on a laptop.

It's not so much about speed, as about comfort.

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otherme123 2 hours ago | parent [-]

My personal experience after switching to Colemak is mostly neutral. Speed is about the same after some training, around 70 WPM. Comfort, maybe improved a bit, but no life changing.

Some people claim that they went from 60 WPM on Qwerty to over 100 WPM on some other newly designed layout, but my experience is clear: if you do it for the speed you will be disappointed.

	▲	9029 an hour ago \| parent [-]
		I'd guess the speed improvement in those cases likely came from learning a better technique, like touch typing and using more of your fingers. Afaik a lot, if not most, of the fastest typists are still on qwerty.

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0x1ch 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> The issue with kinesis and all those nice small symmetrical keyboards is that not every alphabet is as short as English.

> Russian, for example, has 33 letters.

Ironically, the biggest enthusiast of these splits I know in real life (he owns a kinesis) is a slavic guy, speaks both Ukranian and Russian, but I suppose he's typing in English for most of the day at his job, however I know he uses layering for the cyrillic.

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piskov 9 hours ago | parent [-]

Yeah, it’s two or three(?) letters that got cut out, one of them is kinda rare.

You can get used to it, but why suffer. Especially if one also uses a laptop.

Other thing that I don’t like in all these small custom keyboards is that most rely on a single spacebar on one half. I learned to use either thumb depending on which next key is: press space with left thumb if next key is on the right half and vice-versa.

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Also I would urge you to buy a keyboard with arrows keys and extra stuff like home/end

I use uhk 40 and it is fine most of the time since I use vim-motions in my IDEs. But sometimes I just wish they were there.

For example alt-right on mac is to expand all folders recursively in the Finders list view. Just becomes an effing piano if you need to add caps-l to have an arrow in addition to all the alts and shifts.

You can mitigate this with stuff like caps + ; for alt + right arrow (ctrl + right arrow for win), but again, when you need to add shift or not only left/right it gets cumbersome once you are not in the vim-like environment (chats, word, what have you).

tldr; buy uhk 80 nowadays. And an external bluetooth numpad for those days when you need to enter a lot of numbers. Why external? Shorter distance between a keyboard and a mouse — more comfortable and takes less space.

	▲	Marsymars 5 hours ago \| parent [-]
		> tldr; buy uhk 80 nowadays. And an external bluetooth numpad for those days when you need to enter a lot of numbers. Why external? Shorter distance between a keyboard and a mouse — more comfortable and takes less space. Or learn to mouse with your left hand. ;) I used an MS ergo keyboard at my office for years with left-handed mousing since that puts the keys in the middle, mouse on the left and numpad on the right.

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Conscat 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I've been inputting Devanagari with a 30% ortho keyboard lately using QMK. ऐसे अति मुश्किल नहीं है । I have an extra layer for nicher inputs just as I do with my usual Roman text. I'm not aware of any writing systems that normally require multiple layers. The most complex I can think of is Hangul, and they all should translate pretty directly to a smaller keyboard.

	▲	piskov 8 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Any language that has more than 30-35(?) letters needs layers. Even french and german need layers (shift or right alt) for all the stuff like ß or adding accents like é è ê ë

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nosrepa 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

My caps lock key is swapped with the left control key as God intended.

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shahar2k 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

love the microsoft ergonomic kb, I have the surface grey one as my main kb (I need the full layout for various 3d program shortcuts annoyingly) but it really does feel great to type on despite not being "mechanical"

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roflchoppa 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I love my uhk, I really wish the 60v2 had bluetooth. I really don't wanna fork over the money for a 80v2. :(

	▲	piskov 8 hours ago \| parent [-]
		I have wired v1 and I really appreciate its wired way. Every time I used wireless keyboards (microsoft sculpt, latest kinesis advantage), I had issues from time to time. Come to think of it, only apple magic keyboard never failed me. Though I don’t have many hours with it.