8,500 IT workers in the IRS is insane.

They barely have any products, and they contract externally for so much other work

They have worked recently to implement a self-hosted tax submission system and given their rate of return while there may be some mismanagement it is one of the most provably efficient organizations in the government netting 415$ for every dollar of funding in 2024.

▲

bomewish 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Isn’t that a completely bizarre metric though in this instance??! It is specifically the revenue generating arm of the government. If it wasn’t running at a “surplus” that would be very concerning indeed.

	▲	iranintoavan 3 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		I did no verification on whether that metric is correct or not, but I would suspect the metric would be only measuring the amount of revenue the IRS "generated" from doing manual work like audits. The regular, I owe 1,000 in taxes, and I paid 1,000 in taxes. Wouldn't be considered +1,000 in that case, it would be excluded from the metric altogether. Only the additional "findings" from audits would be counted.
	▲	XorNot 3 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		No the point is that if the IRS was at maximum efficiency, more funding wouldn't increase revenues because tax law is tax law: you can't market it or expand the customer base. But if every new dollar currently produces much more then a dollar in returns, it means it's underfunded because taxes that should be collected, that by legal analysis would be planned for in budgeting, aren't. And that matters for a great many things, but one reason is that if you pay taxes and want a tax cut then one reason you're not getting it is because actual revenues are lower then they should be due to uncollected taxes. AKA tax fraud steals from the honest tax payer.

▲

jdross 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I'm not saying we shouldn't have an IRS, and I think IRS agents are probably one of the best ROI gov't employees possible, but 8,500 IT engineers and managers (who I have heard literally didn't even know how to code) makes no sense at all

▲

arcologies1985 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They built IRS Direct File which was a huge improvement. Then the administration killed it to serve tax prep companies.

▲

ThunderSizzle 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Already could file free with free tax usa.

Not that impressive.

I'd be more impressed we got rid of income tax on salaried people entirely, or permit families the same type of deductions that businesses get, and only tax my actual profit - I can't deduct my overpriced housing, or my utilities unless I have a home office for ny own business.

▲

jdross 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Do you know how many people 8,500 employees in IT alone is? Google, all of it, has 60,000 engineers

IRS direct file is just not that complex, I promise you, and are you sure it was even built in house vs contracted?

	▲	righthand 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		The tax code is complex and Direct File isnt the only IRS digital service. It was built by F18 and USDS. You should inform yourself instead of being hysterical about numbers. If you inform yourself the numbers aren’t so scary.

▲

justinator 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They have 150 million paying "customers" (not including businesses) and bring in $5 trillion+ yearly.

▲

IncreasePosts 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Consider that many millions of those "customers" need to hire a professional for hundreds/thousands of dollars to properly interact with the IRS.

▲

justinator 3 hours ago | parent [-]

That's not the IT department's problem. Well, they'll get blamed, but that's pretty on-brand for IT departments.

▲

IncreasePosts 3 hours ago | parent [-]

It's not the IT department's fault, but it makes one wonder if the IT department needs to actually be that large, since customers need to do so much on their own.

Per capita the UK has 2.5x the IT workers in tax collection compared to the US (~25 IT per million vs 65 IT per million). But, those tax collection IT workers help create a system which means UK citizens don't spend hundreds of billions of dollars every year just to file their taxes.

	▲	justinator 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		I don't think this is the current administration to fix the IRS, given the whole Social Security scam SNAFU.

▲

tokyobreakfast 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The public sector is where you need 12 people (and a project manager) to build an Access database.

▲

cdrnsf 3 hours ago | parent [-]

And the private sector is how the US has arrived at a miserable, unworkable healthcare system and an out of control carceral system.

▲

ThunderSizzle 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Today's Health insurance and health care is entirely a product of government intervention on multiple layers.

Health insurance being tied to employment benefits is because the IRS taxes money, but not benefits, for example.

▲

jdross 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Is there a single private sector more removed from market incentives than healthcare?

	▲	nritchie 3 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		And yet all countries with socialized systems pay less per capita for healthcare than we do and pretty much all have better health outcomes. Further privatizing our system will only make it more dis-functional. Healthcare isn't a normal marketplace. * When you really need it, you can't shop around. * There is a knowledge asymmetry built in. * A civilized society can't just let poor children die of preventable causes.
	▲	righthand 3 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		I’m going to drop my doctor this year because he abuses appointments. I call in about an issue and he charges me $75 for telehealth. Then he wants me to come in to run labs for the telehealth call. Another $75 at least. Then another telehealth call for the results. And another one for the results from the radiology department. I told him I have a high out of pocket and he says “I’m sorry to hear that.” Then books me for a follow up. Doctors do not care about the healthcare system one bit.