> I'd never use GrapheneOS since I don't trust the project

Fair enough, you choose what you trust.

But personally, I have never seen a technical claim from GrapheneOS that was wrong or misleading. But I have seen many claims from /e/OS that were technically wrong or misleading. So I trust GrapheneOS more.

Then there is the drama, and all sides annoy me when they behave like this. But I have seen drama coming from all sides.

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onli 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I have never seen drama from /e/ or any other project GrapheneOS attacks, like Calyx. Please link me to it - I asked this several times, people never can follow up. So far?

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palata an hour ago | parent [-]

> Please link me to it - I asked this several times, people never can follow up. So far?

Sorry, I won't spend 30 minutes digging to find that :-). I follow /e/OS, GrapheneOS and (followed) Calyx. I have seen messages from all of those either on forums, Mastodon, etc.

Also, whenever GrapheneOS makes a technical point (which is often a blunt "GrapheneOS is superior because [...] does it wrong"), many users of those projects answer aggressively (and of course many GrapheneOS participate as well).

And on top of that, a lot of messages criticising some GOS people or the entire project and calling them "toxic" whenever GrapheneOS is mentioned.

I have no skin in this game, so it doesn't touch me. But I could understand that the GOS people feel "harassed" by this. If everywhere I went people said "have you seen this guy? I hear he's toxic", I would consider it harassment, I think?

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onli an hour ago | parent [-]

Sorry, but then I take this as the usual - GOS is attacking other projects, that I can easily see in all their socials, and the other projects have done nothing wrong. GOS always claims that the other projects attack them since years, and never shows any proof. And indeed, I still never have seen any attack against GOS. Seems like this won't change today.

You or other readers can check https://github.com/mozilla/ichnaea/issues/2065 for a public display on how GOS attacks work when they are mixed into technical debates, how they destroy any chance of cooperation.

	▲	palata 41 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		> Sorry, but then I take this as the usual Sure, you're free to do what you want. Just sharing my opinion given that I follow those projects from the outside. > You or other readers can check I guess what I am trying to say is that it takes multiple sides to argue. For what it's worth, your link shows the founder of /e/OS engaging there. I have seen both technically wrong and misleading claims from the founder of /e/OS on Mastodon, then GrapheneOS explaining why they thought it was wrong on their forum, and then the founder of /e/OS calling them toxic and complaining about those attacks. And then /e/OS users would join the party and start attacking GrapheneOS, fully trusting those claims from the /e/OS founder. I can't really say that he didn't have any responsibility in the drama under those conditions... Again, GrapheneOS tend to be blunt, but it doesn't make it technically wrong. And when the message is "it is unacceptable to us in terms of security", then it will be blunt anyway. I realised after years of using a phone I bought to Murena that my system (that they installed and sold to me) was entirely breaking the AOSP security model: it was signed with the Google testing keys and the bootloader was unlocked (and just couldn't be relocked, and anyway it wouldn't matter because of those keys that are not meant for production). In other words, I bought a product to Murena that was unacceptable to me in terms of security, but genuinely thought it was better than Stock Android because of Murena / /e/OS marketing. I genuinely feel either they tricked me, or they didn't know it themselves. I have personally seen multiple /e/OS phones in a state where they were objectively less secure than Stock Android. I get that they don't like it when GrapheneOS says it, but that is not wrong.