The sheer amount of information asymmetry is the tricky part here. I think that’s the only relevant part of the equation. The company hires N people per year, you get hired by 1 company every N years. Maybe you work for a company that hired 100 people last year, and there’s someone who’s done analysis for salaries day in and day out. That person has a shitload of information about what the salaries are and what people will accept.

So you exploit the flipside of the information symmetry. The company is obviously not telling me all their employee salaries, so I am not telling them mine. I just need enough of a sense of what the range is to figure out if a number I like is in there.

The company is not planning to blow you away with some big salary number, but I’ve gotten some pretty good offers. This happens sometimes because you’re stepping up to a higher role at the other company, or sometimes because you’re going to a company which just has higher compensation bands to begin with. Or maybe you just look really good to that company. I’ve gotten offers which were +50% above the number I had in my head, or well above that.

It feels like a waste of time and such a song and dance to some people, but the time spent is not wasted, it’s turned into salary dollars.

> The sheer amount of information asymmetry

The irony is the information asymmetry exists solely because we, the employees, are taught to believe it's 'cultural inappropriate' to ask each other's salary. Sometimes even by our parents.

I remember doing my usual prep, did research, wrote down my range. Then they hit me with a number over my top level range that it totally threw me off balance. I should have asked for more, worst case they say no, but I just wasn't prepared for a number over my research and data.

imo giving a range before the offer stage, just gives them a potential reason not to waste their time on you. Thats what they are screening for. So its always a bad idea. Wait for them to want you, then you A. Have leverage and B. don't get cut out early. Even if you don't get the job, having an offer is data you can carry forward. If you are so blessed to have multiple at the same window, great, but even if there are months in-between, you can push the next company that much more with confidence.

Today my plan is simple: 1. If they ask early - I hit them with the market range, lets see if theres a strong fit and we can work something out. I'm not worried etc 2. Do your research, don't just pull cold numbers but factor in your situation as much as possible. Put $ to any benefits, how much is it worth to you? Put that in a spreadsheet 3. When the time comes. Ask them to make an offer. If they ask you to throw the number out first just be bold and say something like "id love to hear your offer first, and then we can chat about any details" 4. Always ask for more. Its a short conversation, quick no and its over. I've gotten 5-20% more constantly when I've asked. I've never had an offer rescinded. Just be polite, use a team/us attitude (i.e. What are your constraints? Hmm ok how can we figure this out?) and embrace the silence. Putting on them to make the solution and just let the silence hang. 5. The only rule is whatever you say you'll accept, you must accept. Never ask for more once they have budged on your request, this is why you must ask for more and if you have a range, and they offer low, maybe tell them the range from the data and say something like "I know you only hire the best and you want to raise the bar with each hire, so I was hoping to see a number at the higher end of that range"

The company hires N people per year, you get hired by 1 company every N years.

Sure, but the company hires you even less often -- at most once every 2N years and probably even less than that.

If you are interchangable with all their other hires... well, that's not a good position to be in for many reasons.

> The company hires N people per year, you get hired by 1 company every N years

Yes, but you can tilt this in your favor (if you find it valuable information) by getting X offers per year.