| ▲ | groundzeros2015 3 hours ago |
| Why are you using experience and authoritative framing about a technology we’ve been using for less than 6 months? |
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| ▲ | kasey_junk 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| The person they are responding with dictated an authoritative framing that isn’t true. I know people have emotional responses to this, but if you think people aren’t effectively using agents to ship code in lots of domains, including existing legacy code bases, you are incorrect. Do we know exactly how to do that well, of course not, we still fruitlessly argue about how humans should write software. But there is a growing body of techniques on how to do agent first development, and a lot of those techniques are naturally converging because they work. |
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| ▲ | groundzeros2015 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | I think programming effectiveness is inherently tied to the useful life of software, and we will need to see that play out. This is not to suggest that AI tools do not have value but that “I just have agents writing code and it works great!” Has yet to hit its test. | | |
| ▲ | garciasn 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | The views I see often shared here are typical of those in the trenches of the tech industry: conservative. I get it; I do. It's rapidly challenging the paradigm that we've setup over the years in a way that it's incredibly jarring, but this is going to be our new reality or you're going to be left behind in MOST industries; highly regulated industries are a different beast. So; instead of just out-of-hand dismissing this, figure out the best ways to integrate agents into your and your teams'/companies' workstreams. It will accelerate the work and change your role from what it is today to something different; something that takes time and experience to work with. | | |
| ▲ | benterix 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > I get it; I do. It's rapidly challenging the paradigm that we've setup over the years in a way that it's incredibly jarring, But it's not the argument. The argument is that these tools provide lower-quality output and checking this output often takes more time than doing this work oneself. It's not that "we're conservative and afraid of changes", heck, you're talking to a crowd that used to celebrate a new JS framework every week! There is a push to accept lower quality and to treat it as a new normal, and people who appreciate high-quality architecture and code express their concern. | |
| ▲ | thesz 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > It will accelerate the work and change your role from what it is today to something different;
We yet to see if different is good.My short experience with LLM reviewing my code is that LLM's output is overly explanatory and it slows me down. > something that takes time and experience to work with.
So you invite us to participate in sunken cost fallacy. | |
| ▲ | groundzeros2015 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I don’t doubt that companies are willing to try low quality things. They play with these processes all the time. Maybe the whole industry will try it. I’m available for consulting when you need something done correctly. |
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| ▲ | JPKab 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| 6 months? I've been using LLMs to augment development since early December 2023. I've expanded the scope and complexity of the changes made since then as the models grew. Before beads existed, I used a folder of markdown files for externalized memory. Just because you were late to the party doesn't mean all of us were. |
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| ▲ | dboreham 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| If you hired a person six months ago and in that time they'd produced a ton of useful code for your product, wouldn't you say with authoritative framing that their hiring was a good decision? |
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| ▲ | groundzeros2015 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | It would, but I haven’t seen that. What I’ve seen is a lot of people setting up cool agent workflows which feel very productive, but aren’t producing coherent work. This may be a result of me using tools poorly, or more likely evaluating merits which matter less than I think. But I don’t think we can see that yet as people just invented these agent workflows and we haven’t seen it yet. Note that the situation was not that different before LLMs. I’ve seen PMs with all the tickets setup, engineers making PRs with reviews, etc and not making progress on the product. The process can be emulated without substantive work. |
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