Like my answer below, that's wrong. Even I have achieved a few draws or even wins against Stockfish in training games, and I am FM strength. From time to time you are happy to reach a simple rook endgame which happens to be won and the engine doesn't anticipate that (horizon effect). You still draw or lose 90% of those but you win 10%.

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baumy 23 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Would you be willing to bet money that you can beat a properly setup stockfish, no piece odds and even time controls? I'll give you literally any odds you name and let you try an unlimited number of times until you give up. 100% serious.

P.S: You should not take this bet. You will lose. You are mistaken if you think you beat stockfish.

	▲	nilslindemann 14 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		The only bet I would take is that I can draw against Stockfish. But I am in general not betting. I also don't have the time currently.

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galkk 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Either the engine was misconfigured, the hardware you were playing on was glitching or you are omitting something. There is no chance in the world that you can beat stockfish in standard time control.

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nilslindemann an hour ago | parent [-]

Just because you can not do it it does not mean that others can not do it. If you search for Lichess games where strong players play against (edit: strongest!) Stockfish (which, admittedly is not the full throttle Stockfish) you will find that Stockfish by far does not win all the time. Such is a claim which only inexperienced chess beginners and Stockfish fanboys make. Stronger players know that Stockfish is relatively better, and by a far margin, but – obviously – does not win all the time due to the huge drawing range in chess. Admittedly, winning a game gets more and more difficult with every year. And, to make you happy, I have never beaten Lc0.

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josephg an hour ago | parent | next [-]

> If you search for Lichess games where strong players play against Stockfish ([..]) you will find that Stockfish by far does not win all the time.

I'm sure some of those games are actually stockfish v stockfish or something similar. Its pretty easy to run stockfish or lichess locally and copy the moves from each engine back and forth.

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nilslindemann an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

@josephg (for reasons I do not know there is no reply link below your post)

Sure, some people are cheaters. Some are not. There is no personal win in cheating against Stockfish. Usually strong players do it for training purposes, or to entertain their watchers when they stream. I actually remember having seen one who did that, and he drew. That was a party.

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josephg 28 minutes ago | parent [-]

Yes. I hear this claim from above: "Some humans can beat stockfish."

Evidence given: "There exist some small number of games on lichess.org played against stockfish where the user won."

My counter argument is that games on lichess against stockfish don't imply a human beat stockfish. It could just be that stockfish (or other bots) can sometimes beat stockfish. And some humans surely use bots to play on their behalf in order to cheat in online games.

I don't know if any humans can beat stockfish. But I don't consider that to be strong evidence.

	▲	nilslindemann 4 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		[delayed]

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nilslindemann 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Further, if the engine does not use an opening database and the thinking time per game is the same, then the engine will usually make the same moves, so you can learn from your errors. There are just a few chess engines which "learn" per default and therefore change their moves, like BrainLearn.

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LogicalRisk 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

That's an extraordinary claim. What level was Stockfish and what were the settings for these training games?

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nilslindemann an hour ago | parent [-]

I do not know the time controls anymore, but I always use the latest Stockfish with all available threads. No opening book, but I do not repeat lines to take advantage of that, because I play to train calculation. I guess hash was the (for my setup) normal 4096 MB.

	▲	LogicalRisk 7 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		Latest Stockfish with all available threads and no opening book is still well beyond any human. The opening book just Elo ratings get a bit silly with computers, but we're talking an Elo of well north of 3000.