| ▲ | ninjagoo 3 hours ago |
| The internet has gone from a high-trust society to a low-trust society, all in the span of a couple of decades. Enshittification strikes again. And it doesn't have appear to have any means to rid itself of the bad apples. A sad situation all around. |
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| ▲ | PessimalDecimal 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| It might be more accurate to say that a lot of low-trust societies have become connected to the Internet which weren't nearly as online a couple of decades ago. For example, a huge fraction of the world's spam originates from Russia, India and Bangladesh. And we know that a lot of the romance scams are perpetrated by Chinese gangs operating out of quasi-lawless parts of Myanmar. Not so much from, say, Switzerland. |
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| ▲ | blell an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | 70% of the GDP of Laos comes from scamming people in the first world. "A report by the Global Initiative on Transnational Organised Crime (based on United States Institute of Peace findings) estimated that revenues from “pig-butchering” cyber scams in Laos were around US $10.9 billion, which would be *equivalent to more than two-thirds (≈67–70 %) of formal Lao GDP in a recent year." https://globalinitiative.net/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/GI-T... | |
| ▲ | kgeist 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Russia has been among the top sources of spam since the early 2000s, it's not like anything changed lately. Mail-order bride scams and similar peaked in like 2005. It doesn't take a lot of people to send spam, I don't think it's correlated with the general population's online presence. I'd actually say it's quite the opposite: in 2026, Russia has never been more disconnected from the Western parts of the Internet than it is now (the Russian Internet watchdog blocks like 30% of foreign resources since a few years ago, while Russian IPs are routinely banned on Western sites after 2022, I can barely open anything without a VPN). For that reason, and because of limited English proficiency, Russian netizens rarely visit foreign resources these days, except for a few platforms without a good Russian replacement like Instagram and YouTube (both banned btw, only via a VPN), where they usually stay mostly within their Russian-speaking communities. I'm not sure why any of them would be the reason the Internet as a whole has supposedly become low-trust. The OP in question is some SEO company using an LLM to churn out sites with "unique content." We already had this stuff 20 years ago, except the "unique content" was generated by scripts that replaced words with synonyms. Nothing really new here. | | |
| ▲ | marginalia_nu 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Prigozhin falling out of the metaphorical window also seems to have tempered the amount of political stuff coming directly from Russia. | |
| ▲ | expedition32 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yeah blaming Russians and Chinese for the internet turning to shit is ludicrous. Chinese have their own internet anyway- it was a shock to me at first just how little the average Chinese citizen really cares about Western culture or society. They have their own problems ofcourse but it has nothing to do with us No it's the tens of billions of mostly American capital going into AI data centers and large bullshit models. | | |
| ▲ | marginalia_nu an hour ago | parent [-] | | It's not completely unfounded. A lot of cyber crime adjacent stuff targeting the west is coming from China and Russia. This is a consequence of these countries not having functioning law enforcement cooperation with the west, as well as chilly bordering on hostile diplomatic relations. It's not (always) sanctioned by the governments of these countries, but it's not entirely unwelcome either. Though all that stuff is a very different thing from what's being discussed in this thread. | | |
| ▲ | sunaookami an hour ago | parent [-] | | >A lot of cyber crime adjacent stuff targeting the west is coming from China and Russia. If you trust your government's propaganda that is used to jusitfy "hackbacks" and buying 0-days on the darkweb that fucks us all. | | |
| ▲ | marginalia_nu 39 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Eh, you don't really need to trust any propaganda to see this. Set up an nginx on a public IP and tail its logs. Vulnerability scans will hit you literally non stop so long as it's a western IP. Block China and Russia IPs and it drops by like 90%. Don't get me wrong the west isn't doing much to enforce Russian or Chinese complaints either. It's really just a messy diplomatic situation all around. |
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| ▲ | digiown 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The WWW has never been a high-trust place. Some smaller communities, sure, but anyone has always been able to write basically what they want on the internet, true or false, as long as it is not illegal in the country hosting it, which is close to nothing in the US. The difference is that there historically weren't much to be gained by annoying or misleading people on the internet, so trolling is mainly motivated by personal satisfaction. Two things changed since then: (1) most people now use the internet as the primary information source, and (2) the cost of creating bullshit has fallen precipitously. |
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| ▲ | allenu 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | I agree. It's not that the web was high-trust. It was more that if you landed on a niche web page, you knew whoever put it together probably had at least a little expertise (and care) since it wouldn't be worth writing about something that very few people would find and read anyway. Now that it's super cheap to produce niche content, even if very few people find a page, it's "worth it" to produce said garbage as it gives you some easy SEO for very little time investment. The motivation for content online has changed over the last 20 years from people wanting to share things they're interested in to one where the primary goal is to collect eyeballs to make a profit in some way. |
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| ▲ | PaulDavisThe1st 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| to be boring, the term "enshittification" was invented by one individual, recently, and has a specific meaning. it does not refer to "things just get worse" but describes a specific strategy adopted by corporations using the internet for commercial purposes. |
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| ▲ | pdonis 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > a specific strategy adopted by corporations using the internet for commercial purposes. Isn't that what's driving the pollution of the Internet by LLMs? | | |
| ▲ | PaulDavisThe1st 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | No. The specific strategy is not about using LLMs or polluting the internet. Enshittification is ... ah screw it, let's turn to wikipedia: > Enshittification, also known as crapification and platform decay, is a process in which two-sided online products and services decline in quality over time. Initially, vendors create high-quality offerings to attract users, then they degrade those offerings to better serve business customers, and finally degrade their services to both users and business customers to maximize short-term profits for shareholders. | | |
| ▲ | ninjagoo 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Feels like there is a case to be made here that the decline of The Internet rather precisely fits those definitions, with the exception that it is a collective of those products and services undergoing enshittification, since high-quality internet-based products/services no longer exist in quantity. Also see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification#Impact which talks of the broadening of the usage of that term. | | |
| ▲ | PaulDavisThe1st 30 minutes ago | parent [-] | | > high-quality internet-based products/services no longer exist in quantity. asserted without evidence and likely false. |
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| ▲ | LPisGood 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Words change meaning as they are used. Especially negative words that may start rather specific tend to get used more generally until the specificity is lost. | | |
| ▲ | anigbrowl 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | how about we put some effort into actually picking the correct words and not just handwaving everything? Especially since the whole topic of discussion here is 'internet research is increasingly less reliable because people just wrote/publish any old BS for clicks.' | | |
| ▲ | LPisGood 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | I don’t think it’s necessarily handwaving. I don’t think anyone has a monopoly on the way language is used and broadening terms is a very natural thing that happens as language evolves | | |
| ▲ | PaulDavisThe1st 31 minutes ago | parent [-] | | we already had "it's getting shittier every day". no need to lose the specific meaning of "enshittification". |
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| ▲ | PaulDavisThe1st 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | "enshittification" was invented within the last couple of years and its inventor is still alive. I'd normally be the first to agree with and push your point about language evolving, but it's not time to apply that to a neologism this young. | | |
| ▲ | LPisGood 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | I think the fact that it’s primarily an Internet related term that gets used a lot on the Internet, has something to do with the acceleration in the broadening of its meaning |
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| ▲ | ninjagoo an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Having thought about your note some more, perhaps this would be a better encapsulation of what I was trying to say: The consumer internet has become platformized, and the dominant platforms are going through enshittification: early user subsidy, then advertiser/seller favoritism, now rent extraction that is degrading outcomes for everyone. | |
| ▲ | krapp 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | >to be boring, the term "enshittification" was invented by one individual, recently, and has a specific meaning. it does not refer to "things just get worse" It literally started meaning that hours after it was first posted to HN and being used. Sorry, that's just how language works. Enshittification got enshittified. Deal with it and move on. | | |
| ▲ | PaulDavisThe1st 33 minutes ago | parent [-] | | that's literally meaningless. also ahistorical, both in that this is not what happened hours after it was first posted to HN (which was months after it was originated), and also in that "things become shittier" was and is still a perfectly common expression, the source of Doctorow's neologism and much closer to what the loose use of it is trying to get at. |
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