| ▲ | charcircuit 5 hours ago |
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| ▲ | runako 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| This is exactly, precisely the opposite of what the impact will be. For example: - every technology has false positives. False positives here will mean 4th amendment violations and will add an undue burden on people who share physical characteristics with those in the training data. (This is the updated "fits the description." - this technology will predictably be used to enable dragnets in particular areas. Those areas will not necessarily be chosen on any rational basis. - this is all predictable because we have watched the War on Drugs for 3 generations. We have all seen how it was a tactical militaristic problem in cities and became a health concern/addiction issues problem when enforced in rural areas. There is approximately zero chance this technology becomes the first use of law enforcement that applies laws evenly. |
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| ▲ | Refreeze5224 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Not only is this incredibly naive, it misses that whole "consent of the governed" thing. I don't want AI involved in policing. They are bad enough and have so little accountability without "computer says so" to fall back on, That's all AI will do, make a bad situation worse. |
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| ▲ | rhcom2 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The targets for the AI are still set by humans, the data the AI was trained on is still created by humans. Involving a computer in the system doesn't magically make it less biased. |
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| ▲ | charcircuit 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | That is true for now, but eventually it should be possible for it to be more autonomous without needing humans to set its target. | | |
| ▲ | throwway120385 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | That's just what we need, an AI that was trained on biased data and then empowered to do whatever it wants autonomously. It's a pity we can't look to any examples of human intelligences that have been trained on biased data and then empowered to do whatever they want autonomously. | |
| ▲ | pixl97 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Ah yes, we'll call the system Skynet. |
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| ▲ | aunty_helen 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Same could be said about the computer systems that have been developed in the last 20 years. But that hasn’t happened… |
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| ▲ | monknomo 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| are you sure it won't enabled targeted enforcement for people law enforcement finds irritating, more than evenly applied law? It's still people setting the priorities and exercising discretion about charging. |
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| ▲ | charcircuit 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | It should be easier to audit since you would have a list of who broke the law, but action had not been taken yet. | | |
| ▲ | monknomo 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | do you think the records of the vast number of police departments and agencies would be combinable with the separate court records, as well as the facial recognition access data source (if it exists?) I think that is pretty unlikely |
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| ▲ | HPsquared 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I wonder how many laws and sentencing guidelines etc are formulated with an implicit assumption that most of the time, people aren't caught. |
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| ▲ | cucumber3732842 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | In my estimation all of the criminal ones and at least half of the civil ones. | |
| ▲ | charcircuit 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I think it will reveal unfair laws and as a society we will have to rebalance things that had such an assumption in place. |
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| ▲ | duped 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| We can't even make hand driers that don't discriminate on the basis of race. You think making complex law enforcement decisions based on data is going to be easier? |
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| ▲ | mrguyorama 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| None of the destruction of your rights has lead to improvement in clearance rates. Crimes aren't solved, despite having a literal panopticon. This view is just false. Cops are choosing to not do their job. Giving them free access to all private information hasn't fixed that. |
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| ▲ | charcircuit 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Then cops should be taken out of the core law enforcement agentic loop. There could be a new role of people who the AI dispatches instead to do law enforcement work in the real world. | | |
| ▲ | Refreeze5224 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I think you fundamentally misunderstand what the role of the police is. They protect property, the owning class, and the status quo. Laws are just a tool for them to do that. Equal justice for all is not a goal for them, and AI will not provide more of it. | |
| ▲ | pixl97 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The thing is if you have a truly fair AI you start catching the Trumps and Musks of this world in their little underaged trists. How long do you think that system would actually stay running for? The thing you're missing is our system is working exactly like it's supposed to for rich people. |
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| ▲ | iLoveOncall 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Meanwhile all AI face recognition software works poorely on non-caucasians. |
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| ▲ | preisschild 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Yeah its not like the "AI" manufacturers have their own biases that are reflected in the model. For example, Deepseek won't give you critical information about the communist party and Grok won't criticise Elon Musk |
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| ▲ | mindslight 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Why do you write so many low-effort, disingenuous, inflammatory comments? They're "not even wrong", yet they just suck energy right out of productive discussion as people inevitably respond to one part of your broken framing, and then they're off to the races arguing about nonsense. The main problem with the law not being applied evenly is structural - how do you get the people tasked with enforcing the law to enforce the law against their own ingroup? "AI" and the surveillance society will not solve this, rather they are making it ten times worse. |
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| ▲ | charcircuit 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I want to share my opinion even if I know that it may not be a popular one on HN. I am not trying to maximize my reputation by always posting what I believe will get the most upvotes, but instead I prioritize sharing my opinion. >people inevitably respond to one part of your broken framing, and then they're off to the races arguing about nonsense. I agree that this unproductive. When people have two very different viewpoints it is hard for that gap to be bridged. I don't want to lay out my entire world view and argument from fist principals because it would take too much time and I doubt anyone would read it. Call it low effort if you want, but at least discussions don't turn into a collection of a single belief. >how do you get the people tasked with enforcing the law to enforce the law against their own ingroup? Ultimately law enforcement is responsible to the people so if the people don't want it then it will be hard to change. In regards to avoiding ingroup preference it would be worth coming up with ways of auditing cases that are not being looked into and having AI try to find patterns in what is causing it. The summaries of these patterns could be made public to allow voters and other officals to react to such information and apply needed changes to the system. | | |
| ▲ | throwway120385 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | I think a good first step to policing the police is to have any use of violence by law enforcement be put to trial in court. They would have all of the same constitutional protections as any other defendant and "I was an officer of the law carrying out my duty" would be a reasonable mitigating factor. There would be no need to jail them or require bond or arraignment or any of that, but they would have to show up for the trial and demonstrate why use of force was necessary. |
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| ▲ | anigbrowl 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | They're "not even wrong", yet they just suck energy right out of productive discussion You answered your own question - it's straight up bait. |
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| ▲ | Ar-Curunir 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| LE has been getting increasingly advanced technology over the years. The only thing that’s increased is their ability to repress and oppress. Go lick boots elsewhere. |