Amazing, but it's also terrifying that the Maya civilization then faltered, instead of getting onto the exponential development spiral. The great Roman civilization also faltered, but at least the Byzantium continued to carry some of its achievements. The great Arabian civilization was for some time more advanced than European (which was in the middle of the dark ages), but it also did not stay progressing for too long. There's no guarantee that our current "western civilization" line is not going to falter and decline in a similar way.

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dzonga 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

seems to me only the Chinese have been able to sort of withstand the test of time

	▲	nine_k 9 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		...if you ignore their going to utter ruin in 19th and early 20th century.
	▲	AtlasBarfed 6 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		The Chinese being a continental empire, andin particular bordering the Mongol hordes, have basically been a continuous cycle of growth and collapse for 1000s of years. It can be argued they are headed for yet another collapse.

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Scrapemist 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

And that’s fine. Another follows after. If we leave them something.

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mrguyorama 15 hours ago | parent [-]

Part of the problem is that industrialization was achieved by exploiting globs of easily available resources. But we used them all.

We haven't left anyone something. It could very well be that we climbed the ladder and burned it behind us.

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senkora 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This is part of the civilizational collapse narrative. It is definitely true in a way.

I think that how much it would end up mattering depends on how well solar tech would withstand a civilizational collapse.

I think that a proto-industrial society with photovoltaics and batteries would be able to bootstrap itself back up to the present state, even without easily exploitable fossil fuels.

(I am not an expert in any of this)

	▲	trollbridge 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		How are they going to make pv’s and batteries in the first place?

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philipallstar 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What do you mean, we haven't left anyone something?

	▲	rationalist 9 hours ago \| parent [-]
		I've heard a few people say we've already drilled all of the easy-to-get oil, so the next civilization may not develop using oil. But maybe all that means is they will master some other technology that we did not. It seems like previous civilizations have mastered technology that we cannot figure out.

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lyu07282 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Colonialism never really ended it just transitioned into a different form, sometimes even very overtly like parts of africa are still using the french colonial currency union (CFA) for example, the IMF keeps the global south in debt entrapment with structural adjustment programs designed to prevent development. etc. etc. we never really left them alone

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wahern 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> IMF keeps the global south in debt entrapment with structural adjustment programs designed to prevent development. etc. etc. we never really left them alone

Countries invite IMF assistance. If they wanted to be left alone, all they have to do is do nothing. If IMF loans didn't have strings attached, they wouldn't be able to borrow money, as it's those strings which build bond investor confidence. The entire point of IMF assistance is to avoid being cutoff from international borrowing for being horrible credit risks (again).

The root cause of national debt problems is primarily government corruption, but also mismanagement, often at the behest of populist politics that excuse economic policy failures by, e.g., scapegoating outside forces. The US isn't immune to this problem, either, it just happens that the US had, albeit intermittently, long enough runs of solid financial management (e.g. Hamilton during the Founding) that it could grow an economic base that could withstand intermittent periods of mismanagement without the entire economy collapsing (yet).

Even when a country is dealt a really crappy hand at the outset, it's not irreversible. Haiti is the poster child for crushing debt unfairly imposed by foreign powers, yet the Dominican Republic had the same history, but managed to overcome it. In some instances, interventions blamed for keeping Haiti oppressed were precisely what helped the Dominican Republic flourish. Likewise, nobody hears about the IMF success stories, just the failures; and it's not because the former don't exist or are rare.

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WalterBright 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Even when a country is dealt a really crappy hand at the outset, it's not irreversible

Hong Kong was poor until 1965, when they got tired of poverty and switched to free markets. The result was amazing prosperity.

	▲	unmole 6 hours ago \| parent [-]
		> switched to free markets Hong Kong has been all about free markets since the end of the Opium Wars.

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crossroadsguy 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Countries invite IMF assistance. If they wanted to be left alone, all they have to do is do nothing ….

Right. Countries that were stripped of anything and everything (lit-fucking-rally) and then left to fend for themselves when it suited the looters, they were enslaved (in every sense), "do" these things, "invite" these things! Yup. That's exactly what happens.

Just the blacks in USA and the browns in the Indian Subcontinent are backward because they "invite" those backwardness, all they have to do is stand on their feet, and how it is spelled around the West, "pull their weight". So it is.

Ffs!

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cpursley 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I'm happy other people are thinking about this. One of the big stories over the fast years that few know about is a number of the French colonies kicking off the shackles. Can they make it on their own or with their new Chinese and Russian "friends"? Guess we'll see.