| ▲ | ssiddharth 6 hours ago |
| My biggest sorrow right now is the fact that my beloved emdash is a major signal for AI generated content. I've been using it for decades now but these days, I almost always pause for a second. |
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| ▲ | manuelmoreale 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| > I've been using it for decades now but these days, I almost always pause for a second. Wrote about this before [0] but my 2c: you shouldn't pause and you should keep using them because fuck these companies and their AI tools. We should not give them the power to dictate how we write. [0]: https://manuelmoreale.com/thoughts/on-em-dashes |
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| ▲ | Lalabadie 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| For what it's worth, whatever LLMs do extensively, they do because it's a convention in well-established writing styles. LLMs have a bias towards expertise and confidence due to the proportion of books in their training set. They also lean towards an academic writing style for the same reason. All this to say, if LLMs write like you were already writing, it means you have very good foundations. It's fine to avoid them out of fear, but you have this Internet stranger's permission to use your em dash pause to think "Oh yeah, I'm the reference for writing style." |
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| ▲ | petters an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | I think that bias is not due to the proportion of books and more due to how they are fine-tuned after the pretraining. | |
| ▲ | djhn 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Aren’t books massively outweighed by the crawled internet corpus? | | |
| ▲ | r_lee 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | I would doubt that because books are probably weighed as higher quality and more trustworthy than random Reddit posts Especially if it's unsupervised training |
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| ▲ | catoc 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Exactly this! I love(d) using em dashes.
Now they’ve become ehm dashes, experiencing exactly that pause — that moment of hesitation — that you describe |
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| ▲ | deron12 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | AI never uses em dashes in a pair like this, whereas most people who like em dashes do. Anyone who calls paired em dash writing AI is only revealing themselves to be a duffer. | | |
| ▲ | Yizahi 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | In my limited text generation experience, LLMs use em-dashes precisely like that, only without spaces on the sides and always in pairs in a single sentence. Here some examples from my Gemini history: "The colors we see—like blue, green, and hazel—are the result of Tyndall scattering." "Several interlocking cognitive biases create a "safety net" around the familiar, making the unknown—even if objectively better—feel like a threat." "A retrograde satellite will pass over its launch region twice every 24 hours—once on a "northbound" track and once on a "southbound" track—but because of the way Earth rotates, it won't pass over the exact same spot on every orbit." "Central, leverages streaming telemetry to provide granular, real-time performance data—including metrics (e.g., CPU utilization, throughput, latency), logs, and traces—from its virtualized core and network edge devices." "When these conditions are met—indicating a potential degradation in service quality (e.g., increased modem registration failures, high latency on a specific Remote PHY)—Grafana automatically triggers notifications through configured contact points (e.g., Slack, PagerDuty)." After collecting these samples I've noticed that they are especially probably in questions like explain something or write descriptive text. In the short queries there is not much text in total to trigger this effect. | |
| ▲ | catoc 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > ”AI never uses em dashes in a pair” I wish that were true, but I feel a little bit vindicated nevertheless |
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| ▲ | eYrKEC2 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I used to enjoy the literate usage of the word "literally". You'll get over it. |
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| ▲ | peterashford 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Using literally to mean figuratively goes back hundreds of years | | |
| ▲ | duskwuff an hour ago | parent [-] | | Not to mention "seriously", "really", "truly", "very", "verily", etc. There's a long history of using words related to truth as intensifiers in English. |
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| ▲ | tkzed49 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I've gone back to using two dashes--LLMs typically don't write them that way. |
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| ▲ | 4b11b4 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Also, unfortunately I have in my global instructions to never use em dashes... |
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| ▲ | nxobject 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| What I do – and I know this isn't conventional style – is use ex dashes. (Or, you could use spaces between em dashes, as incorrect as it is.) |
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| ▲ | OGWhales 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I've noticed that LLMs generated text often has spaces around em dashes, which I found odd. They don't always do that, but they do it often enough that it stood out to me since that isn't what you'd normally see. | |
| ▲ | treetalker 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Or, you could use spaces between em dashes, as incorrect as it is. It's a matter of style preference. I support spaces around em-dashes — particularly for online writing, since em-dashes without spaces make selecting and copying text with precision an unnecessary frustration. By the way,what other punctuation mark receives no space on at least one side?Wouldn't it look odd,make sentences harder to read,and make ideas more difficult to grok?I certainly think so.Don't you? /s |
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| ▲ | archagon 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| To quote Office Space, “Why should I change? He’s the one who sucks.” |
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| ▲ | parsimo2010 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Mostly because when I see an em dash now, I assume that it was written by AI, not that the author is one of the people who puts enough effort into their product that they intentionally use specific sized dashes. AI might suck, but if the author doesn't change, they get categorized as a lazy AI user, unless the rest of their writing is so spectacular that it's obvious an AI didn't write it. My personal situation is fine though. AI writing usually has better sentence structure, so it's pretty easy (to me at least) to distinguish my own writing from AI because I have run-on sentences and too many commas. Nobody will ever confuse me with a lazy AI user, I'm just plain bad at writing. | | |
| ▲ | 98codes 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > assume There's your trouble. The real problem is that most internet users are setting their baseline for "standard issue human writing" at exactly the level they themselves write. The problem is that more and more people do not draw a line between casual/professional writing, and as such balk at very normal professional writing as potentially AI-driven. Blame OS developers for making it easy—SO easy!—to add all manner of special characters while typing if you wish, but the use of those characters, once they were within easy reach, grew well before AI writing became a widespread thing. If it hadn't, would AI be using it so much now? | | | |
| ▲ | kevstev 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | As someone who frequently posts online- with em dashes- I wonder if I am part of the problem with training llms to use them so much- and am going to get punished in the future for doing so. I also tend to way overuse parenthesis (because I tend to wander in the middle of sentences) but they haven't shown up much in llms so /shrug. | |
| ▲ | wrs 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | If you’re judging my writing so shallowly, I don’t think I’m writing for you. | | |
| ▲ | lelanthran 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | > If you’re judging my writing so shallowly, I don’t think I’m writing for you. No, you are writing for people who see LLM-signals and read on anyway. Not sure that that's a win for you. | | |
| ▲ | wrs 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | "Seeing LLM-signals" == "reading shallowly", so I think I covered that case. |
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| ▲ | collingreen 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | To continue the story, the guy saying this got fired and probably wouldn't have without taking this stand. |
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| ▲ | wiseowise 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I use it to trigger false positives in haters – why not? |
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| ▲ | Lio an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| You can still use them — it’s just that they have a new purpose; getting things ignored by AI detection or AI;DR. Now you can ask for outlandish things at work knowing your boss won’t read it and his summariser will ignore it as slop — win. |
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| ▲ | Bukhmanizer 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| You’re absolutely right. I hate AI writing — it’s not that I hate AI, it’s that it makes everything it says sound a specific combination of smug and authoritative — No matter the content. Once you realize it’s not saying anything, that’s the real aha moment. \s |