This is such a bad faith argument. Society has largely agreed that welfare is a valuable thing to do, from disability to social security. Calling taxation theft just says that you aren't able to be rational about this.

▲ lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 12 hours ago | parent [-]

> Calling taxation theft

From reading their comments here, it seems to me that they are saying the theft occurs when labor is sold for a pittance in foreign markets so that things produced by said labor can be sold at a lower price (as compared to when more expensive labor is hired) in domestic markets. ("Basic income" = other people work as slaves in a factory somewhere so you can sit at home and "discover yourself.") The UBI would logically be an extension of that whereby the UBI program itself can only be funded by this disparity and therefore any beneficiary of such a program must be participating, however indirectly, in that theft. (Perhaps especially if one is a loud proponent of such a program.)

Ostensibly, from this perspective, one might consider whether the laborers should benefit more from their labor, rather than the consumers of products which are produced by said labor. It doesn't seem a particularly disagreeable or irrational perspective, at least on its face, though the seemingly disparaging mention of Marxism looks out of place given this perspective is rather Marxist.

Of course, whether one refers to that as "theft" is up to them; I'm just offering this alternate perspective since I didn't read it the way the parent did.

▲ baseballdork 12 hours ago | parent [-]

Not sure how you reconcile this take with "People don't like being robbed, PERIOD, especially not to pay for a bunch of weed smokers to sit at home relaxing on their dime. There will be blood."

This person doesn't like taxation. Tough.

▲ lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 11 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Ah, missed that. For what it's worth, I can kinda read that sentence both ways but it does seem easier to read as being anti-tax. Actually, taking the two quotes juxtaposed like this, their take reads quite a lot like "think of the third-world laborers" in defense of billionaires.

Edit:

Oh, and their reply.

▲

its_magic 10 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It's a "he", not a "they", FYI. In case you were considering actually addressing its thoughts, rather than attacking some ridiculous strawman.

▲

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 9 hours ago | parent [-]

Do you think I did not address your thoughts in my initial reply? Do you think you are addressing others' thoughts and not attacking ridiculous men made of straw? You do not seem to be making a good case for yourself.

	▲	its_magic 7 hours ago \| parent [-]
		"You're not making a very good case for yourself," says the armed robber.

▲

baseballdork 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I still cannot see how you get that impression.

▲

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 10 hours ago | parent [-]

I don't see much of a point in replying with this comment. It reads like your point is "I don't understand your perspective so it must be wrong", which is folly.

If you're looking for a suggestion of how to gain such an understanding, I've certainly got one of those: put more effort into arguing in favor of perspectives you disagree with. Not only will it help you to understand the disagreeable point of view, it will additionally help you to strengthen your beliefs.

I appreciate the added context nonetheless.

▲

baseballdork 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I’m looking for you to back up your perspective with context in this thread that gave you that perspective.

▲

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 9 hours ago | parent [-]

You must have missed it but I already did that; it's in my initial comment.

	▲	baseballdork 8 hours ago \| parent [-]
		You're right, I completely forgot about what you put in that first comment because it seemed like extremely wishful thinking, bordering on gaslighting. Then, given all the comments since then that have been explicitly about taxation, I assumed that you had reassessed and had something new to contribute given how thoroughly those new comments debunked those original statements. Oh well.

▲

its_magic 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Your perspective is you want to take my hard-earned money and give it to some pothead to sit at home and "do artwork."

My perspective is I'd rather keep my weed money to myself.

And that's exactly what I shall do. Want to fight about it?

Your plans to rob society even more than your ilk already do are selfish, idiotic, and will end in ruin--deservedly so.

I have spoken.

▲ its_magic 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Jesus Christ didn't like taxation either. He preached that it was theft also. That's one big reason why they murdered him, then sent Paul (aka Saul) along to invent a new 'explanation' of the Parable of the Coin more favorable to the Roman viewpoint.

Regardless of whatever pretense you put on, you are in fact a member of a gang of thieves plotting to rob your next victim, just as Lysander Spooner explained in the 1800s:

  "If any man's money can be taken by a so-called government, without his own personal consent, all his other rights are taken with it; for with his money the government can (and will) hire soldiers to stand over him, compel him to submit to its arbitrary will, and kill him if he resists." - Lysander Spooner

  "If taxation without consent is robbery, the United States government has never had, has not now, and is never likely to have, an honest dollar in its treasury. If taxation without consent is not robbery, then any band of robbers have only to declare themselves a government, and all their robberies are legalized." - Lysander Spooner

  "The Rothschilds, and that class of money-lenders of whom they are the representatives and agents -- men who never think of lending a shilling to their next-door neighbors for purposes of honest industry, unless upon the most ample security, and at the highest rate of interest -- stand ready at all times to lend money in unlimited amounts to those robbers and murderers who call themselves governments, to be expended in shooting down those who do not submit quietly to being robbed and enslaved." - Lysander Spooner

  "But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain – that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." - Lysander Spooner

Hint: We are now in the "raising of the spirits of the dead" phase of prophecy; the above being an example of what is meant by that phrase. You Are Here.

▲ baseballdork 10 hours ago | parent [-]

I guess I'm confused why I ought to care what Christ or Spooner think about taxation?

▲ its_magic 10 hours ago | parent [-]

In time you will learn the importance of respecting the lives of others.

▲ baseballdork 9 hours ago | parent [-]

I’m not sure why you believe I don’t

▲ its_magic 7 hours ago | parent [-]

The subject of this conversation is your desire to rob me.

▲ baseballdork 7 hours ago | parent [-]

No, it's about your viewpoint on taxation and how it's a pointless task to try and reason with a person that takes that stance. "Respecting the lives of others" doesn't preclude taxation to any rational person.

	▲	its_magic 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Wrong. Theft or robbery is never justified, no matter what name you give it or how you paint and pretty it up and try to pretend that it's just. The fact of the matter is, you're sticking a gun in somebody's face and demanding money, to be used for your own selfish purposes, or under some pretense of "the public good." That's a crime. You are a criminal. Hear the words of a man much wiser and better than you: `"If taxation without consent is robbery, the United States government has never had, has not now, and is never likely to have, an honest dollar in its treasury. If taxation without consent is not robbery, then any band of robbers have only to declare themselves a government, and all their robberies are legalized." - Lysander Spooner` The people you call "rational" are in fact slaves, just like you. That's what you were bred to be, for countless generations. Today you are capable of nothing else but blind, loyal obedience to your owners. You're a crab in a bucket, dragging any other crab back in who dares to attempt escape. "Rationality" is not a concept your type is actually familiar with. You are incapable of any kind of independent life or thought. Every single "thought" you have was programmed into your mind. Real, actual freedom scares the shit out of you. The only purpose of your meager existence is to make your owners more wealthy and powerful. When you no longer serve this purpose, you will be discarded--tossed into the fire and forgotten, like a burnt out cigarette stub. That's not long off now.