I'm in the foothills in Northern California, and I've never met anyone here that changes their ties out for winter. When there's chain controls, they'll let you through if you have winter rated tires, including all-season, and all-wheel drive, otherwise you need chains.

Everyone I know who drives a lot in the snow gets a vehicle with all-wheel drive and everyone else carries chains. (really they're cables, on a small vehicle)

The difference between what winter-only tires can handle vs winter-rated all-season tires is so minimal that they're not with getting. Chance ate conditions are either fine for the all-season tie or there so bad that the difference is inconsequential and you need all-wheel drive or chains.

I've only heard of people changing their tires on the Midwest, where snowfalls are in the inches, not feet.

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esmIII 7 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I went to school at Michigan Tech where we would regularly get over 300 inches in the winter. I drove a Honda civic with snow tires. It was fine even on steep slopes. Winter tires keep you from loosing traction and sliding off the road. AWD helps you get back on the road after you slide off.

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triceratops 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2014/12/01/all-wheel-drive-d...

FTA:

"If anyone gets an AWD vehicle “for safety” but uses it with all-season tires, they have performed a Consumer Sucka Fail. A front wheel drive vehicle with snow tires would have more grip.

According to this Consumer Reports test (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXjzYbpt9Ow) on snow tires vs. AWD, the tires were by far the most important factor. And only 12% of AWD vehicle owners bothered to put snow tires on their vehicle, meaning 88% of all-wheel-drive vehicle purchases were wasted, because the drivers could have achieved better performance at lower cost in a front-wheeler with snow tires."

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rconti 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> The difference between what winter-only tires can handle vs winter-rated all-season tires is so minimal that they're not with getting. Chance ate conditions are either fine for the all-season tie or there so bad that the difference is inconsequential and you need all-wheel drive or chains.

You couldn't be more wrong.

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kyralis 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

As others have said, this is very wrong. I live in Vermont an Duse "all season" tires as my summer tires on both my Subaru and my 4wd truck. I absolutely change to winter tires on both vehicles (studded, on the truck), and the difference in snowy conditions is night and day.

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brabel 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Interesting, here in Sweden it’s mandatory to change tires. Once I did it a bit late and drove on some ice, just a little. The car was like on ice skates for a little while .

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matttproud 13 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Driving discipline, culture, and rules in North America are Mickey Mouse.

The reality of car dependency there means that there are people driving and owning cars who can't really afford to do it properly, nor do they know they need to do it properly (e.g., having a second set of tires for the winter). You can see this evidenced by the rust buckets on the road that look like they are one pothole away from losing part of the vehicle body. Deferred maintenance and investment everywhere and in everything …

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dlcarrier 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I wonder if it's a carryover of an old regulation that used to make sense. Modern all-season tires are better in snow than the best winter tires were several decades ago.

Also, you need studs or chains to get traction on ice. The difference between a winter tire and a summer tire is the temperature range where the rubber stays flexible. When the rubber gets hard, it will keep its shape instead of complying with the surface of the road, so it loses traction quicker. Ice is flat, so there's no difference between tire types, and there's nothing to grip on to.

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kalleboo 11 hours ago | parent [-]

Nordic studless winter tires (different from Central European winter tires so also probably different from whatever you get in the US) do give some grip on ice, while all-seasons can be nearly as bad as summer tires. https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-031-66968-2_...

The government has done ongoing research on these subjects and the regulations do get renewed (e.g. some properly rated all-seasons are now allowed)

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matttproud 10 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Piggdekk in Norway are equivalent to North American studded tires. When I lived in the northern parts of the U.S., I had a set of these for times around freezing rains.

Beyond the questions of winter weather properties, there are adjacent tradeoffs between the tire types (outside of studded):

1. Fuel economy

2. Noise

3. Degree of particulate pollution emission

I'm sure that the all-season tires probably have some negative tradeoffs in these regards to, which yields a choose the most optimal product for the time of year. All-season tires to me seem like a convenience food for places where the weather can be legitimately bad.

One other difference that is hard to articulate to North American drivers with respect to understanding Scandinavia and roads: there are places where snow and ice will literally not be removed (maybe not even removeable) from the road when plowed (I presume until spring melt). It just becomes a thick ice pack over the course of weeks. I never encountered any roads in my life (including Northern Minnesota) that were this inclement. North American roads tend to be cleared (plowing or melting) to asphalt or pavement.

	▲	dlcarrier 9 hours ago \| parent [-]
		All-season tires aren't simply a matter of convenience, they offer a safety benefit. If you aren't driving at normal highway speeds, even if it's the dead of winter and the air is below freezing, your tires will heat up and the winter tires won't have as much traction. The disadvantage on dry roads can be several times what the advantage was on contaminated roads, including during the winter.

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dlcarrier 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I've also seen snow tires perform worse than all-season tires, e.g: https://www.tyrereviews.com/Tyre/Michelin/CrossClimate-2.htm vs https://www.tyrereviews.com/Tyre/Barum/Polaris-5.htm

If tires complying with the standards overlap, then the standards are meaningless. When there's requirements for snow tires, but not for X brand or model of snow tire, than it's not doing any good. That's why it's important to have a snow rating that can apply to tires of any type, and if it meets that rating, regardless of the rating for dry warm weather, than it should be good to go, otherwise not.

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Tor3 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Indeed. The first thing I do when buying a second-hand car (I never buy new cars, what a waste of money) is to buy the best winter tires (and summer tires if needed) that money can buy (lots of that available, as I save so much on the car). I never have any problems in any conditions (and there are a lot of "conditions..")

All seasons tires are rubbish. Also the "new" ones (re sister comment).

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rypskar 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

All-wheel drive doesn't help you at all where it is most important, and that is in braking. Having all-wheel drive only helps you get up to a dangerous speed faster when the grip is low

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jjav 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> The difference between what winter-only tires can handle vs winter-rated all-season tires is so minimal that they're not with getting.

Yeah.. no. The difference is night and day.

Put on some Nokian Hakkapeliitta tires and prepare to be amazed. The grip on snow is spectacular.

All the years I lived in snow areas I drove a Miata of all things.. RWD, light, no ABS, no TC, 4" clearance. But with Hakkapeliitta tires I never once had any trouble, while people in their trucks and 4x4s were stuck on the side of the road due to all-season tires. A true snow tire is a whole different level.

> Northern California ... chain controls

The whole California chain thing is brain damage. The proper safe answer to driving in snow is top quality snow tires, not chains. Chains is the worst possible idea. The chain laws are laws created by politicians who live in sunny Sacramento and have never seen snow and have no clue.

A car with Hakkapeliittas (Blizzaks are good too) will outhandle a car with chains 100% of the time.

	▲	dlcarrier 10 hours ago \| parent [-]
		The difference between two-wheel and all-wheel drive is night and day, compared to the difference between winter and summer tires. Even then, it all goes out the door when conditions get icy and the only option is studs or chains, to get any traction. Chain controls, and really all winter regulations, like snow load factors in buildings and whatnot, are created locally, not by the state. Most politicians are from Southern California, and all the state cares about is air condition efficiency and water usage, as though everyone lives in the desert.

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kevin_thibedeau 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

All-season tires are not winter rated. They are 3.5 season at best. True winter usage only exists in all-weather or snow tires with the 3PMS symbols.

	▲	wffurr 4 hours ago \| parent [-]
		I have some 3PMS all season tires: Michelin Crossclimate 2. So far seem to be doing well on my FWD Chevy Bolt EV. I live in Boston though and we don't often get enough snow to really need snow tires. Also I usually ride my bike when it's snowy instead of driving.

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philistine 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You’re dangerously wrong. Winter tires make a very large difference in braking. If they’re so inconsequential, why are they mandatory in many northern places?

Culture has an impact on what people choose to do. I’ve seen so many Americans with your point of view. It’s maddening. Winter tires save lives!

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dboreham 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Montana here. Everyone that can afford to changes their tires. Costco tire center is a s.show in November and May. Nobody uses chains except for un-maintained roads. Obviously nobody buys a 2WD vehicle here.

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newsclues 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

No, the rubber compound in winter tires are vastly superior to all seasons on snow/ice, it helps you actually control the vehicle.

I’ve shoveled meters of snowfall this year, our roads are just packed down snow, no pavement.