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avidiax 4 hours ago

While I don't think it would prevent our troops from having foreign-produced trucks in theater, we can't affordably procure such trucks thanks to the Chicken Tax. I would also guess that giving a DoD contract to Toyota for a truck that may not be registrable in the US would also face institutional resistance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax

bluGill 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The military has an incentive to ensure there are plenty of Americans who know how to design and manufacture things. A truck and a tank have a lot in common - if war breaks out we want the ability to take people of of trucks and get them making things the military needs.

This is the same reason the Navy has for building ships in the US even though they can be done other places cheaper.

theluketaylor an hour ago | parent | next [-]

> A truck and a tank have a lot in common

Maybe in 1942. Modern tanks cannot be built on highly specialized production lines that build road vehicles without years-long re-tooling. M1 Abrams tanks don't even use piston engines, they have turbines.

A older, but well documented example how specialized modern automotive production has become is the Mercedes Benz 500e. In the 90s Mercedes wanted to build a more powerful, wider version of the E class. They added 56 mm to the front fenders and discovered it wouldn't fit through the production line properly. MB contracted for Porsche to handle the low-volume 500e on a different production line.

bluGill 36 minutes ago | parent [-]

if we need tanks we need people who can build assembly lines. Retooling existing lines isn't the only option.

ASalazarMX an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> This is the same reason the Navy has for building ships in the US even though they can be done other places cheaper.

You'd think the biggest war machine on the planet would benefit from economies of scale by now. If they want to stay sharp they could build commercial ships between the ocassional war ship.

wedog6 an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

If you don't believe in the power and corruption of the military procurement industry and the military itself, then your comment is so unrealistic as to be deluded.

If you do believe in it, then it's simply irrelevant. Given the other reasons that the US military is spent with profligacy on US manufactured goods, maintaining 'truck know-how' does not register. If the know how consideration did not exist the money would still be spent in exactly the same way.

rootusrootus 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Toyota has factories in the US where they produce pickups. They could build the Hilux here if they thought it would do well in the market.

HNisCIS 3 hours ago | parent [-]

That's the thing though, they can't, at least until the very recent advent of EVs. We used to have similar vehicles (the old 80s/90s ford ranger, tacoma, etc) but they were regulated out of existence by CAFE standards.

Even if you repealed CAFE today, the automakers have all built their entire business strategy around selling enormous expensive vehicles and generally despise producing lower cost options.

We are starting to see what appears to be the beginnings of a small pickup renaissance due to electrification but none have actually hit the market yet and trump has further stalled that progress by messing with EV subsidies and environmental standards.

kube-system 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The current Hilux is extremely close in size to the US Tacoma... It has also grown over the years. Although if you look at the footprint size (e.g. what CAFE measures), the Tacoma has the wheels a little more advantageously placed.

I am sure they could consolidate the models to work in both the US and abroad, but my guess is they do enough US volume that it is not yet advantageous to do so. There's already a number of major parts that have been shared recently between the Tacoma and Hilux... e.g. the 2TR-FE engine and AC60 transmission. But usually Toyota chooses to spec the Tacoma as a more up-market vehicle, which makes sense given the US market.

skipkey an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In 1993 I paid a shade under $10k for a new Chevy S10 where the only options were AC (not actually optional in Texas) and CD player in the radio. It was manual transmission, V6. Indexed to inflation that would be, what, about $24k today if regs allowed them to be built?

If it existed they would fill every rural high school parking lot in the south. Allow them to exist and someone will build them.

zdragnar 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

They are massive because of the cafe standards. There's plenty enough of a market for smaller trucks, even the Ford Maverick which is closer to a car with a bed sold out immediately.

I like my big truck but when it dies, if there's a small truck available that lets me plow snow and tow logs in the forest, I'll get it.

shawn_w 28 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Smaller trucks don't have the suspension etc. for mounting a snow plow, or heavy towing. Those are applications where a bigger heavy duty truck make sense.

2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
gowld 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

25% tariff isn't a roadblock for military spending.

mjhay 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Regarding Western military procurement,

“We have such sights to show you!”

HNisCIS 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Also, because of CAFE standards, the US can't even attempt to create its own competing light trucks as everything needs to be fucking massive to maintain the emission exemptions.

The thinking was it would make cars more efficient but instead everyone just built obscenely large vehicles that were classified as trucks instead of passenger vehicles.

AnthonyMouse 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

There are two ways to improve fuel economy. The first is technology (fuel injection, aerodynamics, hybrids, etc.). The second is to make the vehicle smaller.

The first one is a trade off against cost, but the market is already pretty good at handling that one on its own. Fuel injection and aerodynamics don't add much to the cost of a car, so pretty much everything has that now. Hybrid batteries are more expensive, but the price is coming down, and as it does the percentage of hybrid cars is going up. You don't really need a law for this; people buy it when the fuel savings exceeds the cost of the technology.

The second one is a trade off against things like cargo capacity. If you say that "cars" have to get >35 MPG at the point before hybrids are cost effective, or keep raising the number as the technology improves, it's essentially just a ban on station wagons. And then what do the people who used to buy station wagons do instead? They buy SUVs.

The entire premise is dumb. If you want more efficient vehicles then do a carbon tax which gets refunded to the population as checks, and then let people buy whatever they want, but now the break even point for hybrids and electric cars makes it worth it for more people.

thatcat 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

CAFE stopped being enforced in 2022 and don't apply going forward.

bsder an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

As much as I like to slag on CAFE, we have been here before.

Automakers simply hate making affordable cars. MBAs extol "Number must go up! BRRRRRRR!" and you cannot do that with cheap cars.

Remember the 70s? What did the big automakers do? They made bigger and bigger cars ever shittier and jacked up the prices. Sound familiar?

And then what happened? Japan showed up and cleaned their clock. And then the protectionist laws got passed, but it didn't matter because the Japanese cars were smaller and better and used less gas. Sound familiar?

History may not repeat itself, but it sure likes to rhyme.

NedF 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

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