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mark242 2 hours ago

I would argue that it's going to be the opposite. At re:Invent, one of the popular sessions was in creating a trio of SRE agents, one of which did nothing but read logs and report errors, one of which did analysis of the errors and triaged and proposed fixes, and one to do the work and submit PRs to your repo.

Then, as part of the session, you would artificially introduce a bug into the system, then run into the bug in your browser. You'd see the failure happen in browser, and looking at Cloudwatch logs you'd see the error get logged.

Two minutes later, the SRE agents had the bug fixed and ready to be merged.

"understand how these systems actually function" isn't incompatible with "I didn't write most of this code". Unless you are only ever a single engineer, your career is filled with "I need to debug code I didn't write". What we have seen over the past few months is a gigantic leap in output quality, such that re-prompting happens less and less. Additionally, "after you've written this, document the logic within this markdown file" is extremely useful for your own reference and for future LLM sessions.

AWS is making a huge, huge bet on this being the future of software engineering, and even though they have their weird AWS-ish lock-in for some of the LLM-adjacent practices, it is an extremely compelling vision, and as these nondeterministic tools get more deterministic supporting functions to help their work, the quality is going to approach and probably exceed human coding quality.

dasil003 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I agree with both you and the GP. Yes, coding is being totally revolutionized by AI, and we don't really know where the ceiling will be (though I'm skeptical we'll reach true AGI any time soon), but I believe there still an essential element of understanding how computer systems work that is required to leverage AI in a sustainable way.

There is some combination of curiosity of inner workings and precision of thought that has always been essential in becoming a successful engineer. In my very first CS 101 class I remember the professor alluding to two hurdles (pointers and recursion) which a significant portion of the class would not be able to surpass and they would change majors. Throughout the subsequent decades I saw this pattern again and again with junior engineers, bootcamp grads, etc. There are some people no matter how hard they work, they can't grok abstraction and unlock a general understanding of computing possibility.

With AI you don't need to know syntax anymore, but to write the write prompts to maintain a system and (crucially) the integrity of its data over time, you still need this understanding. I'm not sure how the AI-native generation of software engineers will develop this without writing code hands-on, but I am confident they will figure it out because I believe it to be an innate, often pedantic, thirst for understanding that some people have and some don't. This is the essential quality to succeed in software both in the past and in the future. Although vibe coding lowers the barrier to entry dramatically, there is a brick wall looming just beyond the toy app/prototype phase for anyone without a technical mindset.

athrowaway3z 15 minutes ago | parent [-]

I can see why people are skeptical devs can be 10x as productive.

But something I'd bet money on is that devs are 10x more productive at using these tools.

pragmatic 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Now run that loop 1000 times.

What does the code /system look like.

It is going to be more like evolution (fit to environment) than engineering (fit to purpose).

It will be fascinating to watch nonetheless.

skybrian 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Sure, if all you ask it to do is fix bugs. You can also ask it to work on code health things like better organization, better testing, finding interesting invariants and enforcing them, and so on.

It's up to you what you want to prioritize.

xtracto 2 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I agree but want to interject that "code organization " won't matter for long.

Programming Languages were made for people. I'm old enough to have programmed in z80 and 8086 assembler. I've been through plenty of prog.langs. through my career.

But once building systems become prompting an agent to build a flow that reads these two types of excels, cleans them,filters them, merges them and outputs the result for the web (oh and make it interactive and highly available ) .

Code won't matter. You'll have other agents that check that the system is built right, you'll have agents that test the functionality and agents that ask and propose functionality and ideas.

Most likely the Programming language will become similar to the old Telegraph texts (telegrams) which were heavily optimized for word/token count. They will be optimized to be LLM grokable instead of human grokable.

Its going to be amazing.

smashed an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I have some healthy skepticism on this claim though. Maybe, but there will be a point of diminishing returns where these refactors introduce more problems than they solve and just cause more AI spending.

Code is always a liability. More code just means more problems. There has never been a code generating tool that was any good. If you can have a tool generate the code, it means you can write something on a higher level of abstraction that would not need that code to begin with.

AI can be used to write this better quality / higher level code. That's the interesting part to me. Not churning out massive amounts of code, that's a mistake.

pragmatic an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Your assuming that scrum/agile/management won't take this over?

What stakeholder is prioritizing any of those things and paying for it out of their budget?

Code improvement projects are the White Whale of software engineering - obsessed over but rarely from a business point of view worth it.

finebalance 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

"evolution (fit to environment) than engineering (fit to purpose)."

Oh, I absolutely love this lens.

seba_dos1 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Unless you are only ever a single engineer, your career is filled with "I need to debug code I didn't write".

That's the vast majority of my job and I've yet to find a way to have LLMs not be almost but not entirely useless at helping me with it.

(also, it's filled with that even when you are a single engineer)

pphysch 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Automatically solving software application bugs is one thing, recovering stateful business process disasters and data corruption is entirely another thing.

Customer A is in an totally unknown database state due to a vibe-coded bug. Great, the bug is fixed now, but you're still f-ed.