| ▲ | delichon 8 hours ago |
| The starships left with the optimism. In the 50s there was a greater demand for stories with an unconstrained vision of the future where growth and expansion amount to flourishing. Later generations that lived in the excesses of growth saw it as the source of an intensifying dystopia. They stood athwart history and demanded decelleration. Star Trek lost ground to Terminator, Foundation to Neuromancer. Escaping sideways into fantasy gained the popularity lost by escapes into the future. I predict a correlation between space-based scifi sales and polls on whether the country is heading in the right direction. |
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| ▲ | chasil 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| Also, we've realized the scientific reality that traveling faster than light is likely impossible, and the vast distances to other habitable planets would mean tens of thousands of years of travel even with the most efficient technology. Interstellar space is also hostile to life, and any life present at the destination will not use the same DNA coding for protein (if gene expression even works that way). We also do not yet have the technology for a complete survey of nearby habitable planets. It is not an encouraging line of thought. |
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| ▲ | bot403 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Not sure your point. It's fiction. Are we closer to finding dragons, faeries, or magic? Visiting remote planets is as unlikely as riding a dragon. But both make for great stories. | | |
| ▲ | squeaky-clean 15 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Science Fiction doesn't have to be fantasy, it can be speculative. But if your setting or plot relies on something we know to be scientifically untrue, and you don't put some effort into explaining why it somehow works in your setting, it's fantasy and not speculative. Someone like Asimov never considered his books to be fantasy and that he could just insert whatever he wanted with no justification. In fact, he never considered sci-fi to be a genre, he always argued it was a setting and that his most famous stories were detective stories in a sci-fi setting. But detective stories don't work if your world isn't grounded in something real. Otherwise the reader can't reasonably build their own theory or deduce the answer because it's based on what the author thought was cool and not what logically connects. The appeal of something like The Expanse just falls apart if you introduce a FTL engine just because it makes for a more dramatic story moment somewhere in the plot unless there is some serious justification as to why the author didn't just break all the rules of their world (which is supposed to be our world, but in the future). | |
| ▲ | dboreham 30 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Presumably these are equally likely because you could build a DNA-printer and thereby create a dragon of some sort (not sure if it could have fully functional fire breathing though)? |
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| ▲ | pfdietz 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > and any life present at the destination will not use the same DNA coding for protein (if gene expression even works that way). Well, that could be worked around in the world building. My favorite SF-friendly scenario would be if life originated in the Sun's natal cluster (perhaps not around the Sun itself), with tens of thousands of star systems, and spread between them before the cluster dispersed. Presumably panspermia would be much easier in such a situation because the stars are closer together and because maybe residual gas could help particles get trapped near other young systems. In this case all the "infected" systems could have the same coding. A nice consequence of this scenario is it's compatible with the Fermi argument: even if origin of life is unlikely, it just had to happen once here, and so it not happening elsewhere in the galaxy (or even visible universe) is not a problem. | |
| ▲ | sandworm101 4 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | There is a scene in Pirates of the Carribean where captain jack is stuck in a void surrounded by duplicates of himself. It is his hell. As we have biult better and better telescopes we realize that as we expand into space we will be stuck talking only to ourselves, at least for a few thousand generations. When they turned on LIGO i wanted to see warp drives whipping around. But all we saw was distant black hole mergers, interesting but not exactly a star trek moment. When areicebo fell, and was not immediately rebiult, i realized that most people just dont care about ever meeting another civilization. Even if we did find one, it wouldnt change much here on earth. Most people dont care about climate change, what matter will aliens a thousand lightyears away? | |
| ▲ | Alex-Programs 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | This is motivated pessimism. We knew in the 50s that breaking the speed of light was highly unlikely. We dreamed of the stars anyway. Now we refuse to dream, or to even attempt to solve the problems (a common pattern when discussing spaceflight is people who are blatantly searching for problems, rather than solutions), because we are pessimistic, devoid of imagination, and seek to legitimise our collective depression through scientific and engineering arguments. | | |
| ▲ | jfengel 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | You don't need to break the speed of light to get to the stars. Time dilation and space contraction mean that you can get there in as little time as you desire. Everyone you knew on earth would be dead by the time you got back, but if it's just about you, the speed of light is no limitation at all. (The rocket equation, however, presents stupendous engineering challenges.) | |
| ▲ | chasil 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I have upvoted you, and perhaps you are right that there are shades of pessimism in this perspective. The 2020s have not been known as reasons for great optimism. The pandemic and AI culling clades of the job market have been traumatizing experiences. | | |
| ▲ | binary132 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | If you think this is something that started in the 2020s you need to review the chart. |
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| ▲ | krapp 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I don't think it's motivated pessimism so much as a shifting tastes and changes in media. There are tons of SF stories with starships in movies, games and streaming platforms. It just happens to be the case that fantasy is more popular then SF at the moment where books are concerned. | |
| ▲ | echelon 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Our astrophysicists don't even know why the universe is expanding, don't know that Lambda CDM is correct, don't know if things are universally consistent, yet we're so damned sure this is it. We don't even know that this isn't a simulation. Not non-falsifiable, sure. But we're convinced we're bound to this solar system with our crude tools and limits of detection. One new instrument could upset our grand understanding and models. Maybe we should wait until they get better hardware to marry ourselves to their prognostications of the end of time. During the postwar years of plenty, people stopped dreaming. We had bold dreams before WWII, but people stopped looking at how far we'd come and started comparing themselves to everyone else. We had no mortal enemy, tremendous wealth, and "keeping up with the Joneses" became the new operating protocol. We have more than we did in the past. The manufacturing wealth of 1940-1970 was a fluke. The trade wealth of 1980-2020 was a fluke. We were upset over an unfair advantage that won't last forever. Even today we're still better off than a hundred years ago, yet everyone focuses on how bad things are. Maybe a return to hardship will make us dream again. | | |
| ▲ | jfengel 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | We do know why the universe is expanding. That's due to general relativity. That's well attested to high confidence. We don't know why the expansion is accelerating. For that we have only speculation. |
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| ▲ | cindyllm 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
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| ▲ | foobarbecue 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Maybe, but the most compelling scifi to me personally is the generation ship stuff, like Ring by Steven Baxter. | | | |
| ▲ | lotsofpulp 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > we've realized the scientific reality that traveling faster than light is likely impossible Would any of the stories about the characters’ relationships with people not traveling with them be entertaining given the effects of time dilation? |
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| ▲ | mlinhares an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I kinda have the same feeling for music as well, the best phases for metal and punk music are usually when stuff is going to shit. When everything looks bright and good the music just doesn't have the same quality, people are not angry all the time. |
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| ▲ | Den_VR 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I still find myself quite taken by some sci-fi writing. Iain M Banks works, Rajaniemi, and Joan Slonczewski. The “problem” is that they are not popular the way Harry Potter or isekai are. |
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| ▲ | flohofwoe 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I don't know, to the East of the Iron Curtain science fiction wasn't mostly about future optimism (at least after the initial "we're building a better society" optimism had been brutally murdered during the 1950s and 60s), but often a critical mirror of then-current society transported into the future to escape state censorship. Maybe it's as simple as free societies not having the evolutionary pressure to produce great literature that requires an interested and intelligent reader to decode the hidden messages written between the lines ;) |
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| ▲ | pfdietz 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Stated with a different spin, the detached-from-reality takes of Campbell-era SF finally became too strained to enjoy. |
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| ▲ | HPsquared 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Why did people want to escape Earth though? Maybe they felt Earth was past saving. |
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| ▲ | DennisP 19 minutes ago | parent [-] | | A lot of the old stuff isn't so much about escaping Earth, as outgrowing it. A feeling that it's our destiny to expand to the stars, just as it was life's destiny to come out of the oceans. The more we look for alien civilizations and come up empty, the more I feel like they were on to something. For all we know, life is exceedingly rare in the universe. |
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