| ▲ | ksec 9 hours ago |
| Ever since Apple moved to Services Strategy in 2014 it has been like this. Services were not there so they could provide a better experience for its "customers". I use the word "customer" here which is what Apple / Steve Jobs used to call their loyal fans, and not user. But to further growth their Revenue pie because they foresee iPhone one day will stagnant. You now have Apple Fitness+, Apple TV, News, Music, Arcade. None of these are of any quality of what Apple used to be. It is really sad. Oh and the most iconic thing? Apple was the one who tried to kill internet ads between 2017 - 2020. |
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| ▲ | D13Fd 9 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| Fitness+ is actually super high quality, really well integrated with Apple’s products, and fun to use. I love it. I would happily pay the monthly Apple fee just for fitness+. I hope they don’t change it. If there is anything that represents a “services strategy” like the Apple of the Jobs era, it’s fitness+. |
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| ▲ | Analemma_ 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | Fitness+ is okay-ish but it’s not getting any attention and I don’t think it deserves its $10/month price. Non-Apple fitness subscriptions at the same price are far better. Just for starters, what if you have two people in the house who want to do a Fitness+ workout together? Too bad: even if they both pay for it, one gets the nice tracking and HUD and the other gets squat. This is an obvious and trivial feature, and it’s nowhere to be found. I could maybe see it getting cut for the launch checklist if people were behind schedule, but Fitness+ plus is more than five years old now, there is no excuse. It’s total abandonware from a company trying to do the absolute minimum to get your recurring subscription. | | |
| ▲ | kemayo 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I dunno, I think that multiple people doing a workout together in the same at-home room is a bit of an edge case for this app. I have a not-tiny house, and I don't have a space where I could do that without having to move heavy furniture around first. People who live in apartments are really out of luck. They do support syncing up the workouts of people who're each using their own device: https://support.apple.com/en-us/101979 | |
| ▲ | D13Fd 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > It’s total abandonware from a company trying to do the absolute minimum to get your recurring subscription. What? Abandonware? They are constantly posting new workouts that are thought out and well produced. The Fitness+ app is very well maintained. It works great. It has cool features. Honestly I don't know what you are talking about, here. I've worked out together with one to three other people several times. No one cared that their heart rate wasn't shown on the screen. It's really not an important feature and a very niche use case. | |
| ▲ | darkhorse222 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I think you would use SharePlay for that maybe |
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| ▲ | StilesCrisis 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| They tried to kill _competitors'_ ads. Everyone else gets "Ask Not to Track" while Apple gets "Personalized Ads." It's so glaring once you see it. |
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| ▲ | tonyedgecombe 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| TV is pretty good even for my English sensibilities. Severance is some of the best television I’ve seen in a long time. |
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| ▲ | manuelabeledo 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Commercials in TV+ are as bad as ads in News+, e.g. it seems I cannot open the app without getting blasted at with a Peacock commercial. | | |
| ▲ | MBCook an hour ago | parent [-] | | What? I’ve never seen a single commercial on an Apple TV+ show. |
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| ▲ | dlcarrier 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Which makes it even more tragic that the few good streaming shows produced recently are all on a network no one watches. I am glad that they bought the rights to Brandon Sanderson's books, because I know Netflix wouldn't do them justice and Amazon prime would be far worse than that, but it also means that it will have a tenth of the available audience that a Netflix contract would have brought. | | |
| ▲ | chrisweekly 36 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Hmm, your comment resonates in principle [caring about quality production of worthwhile narratives], but your specific examples show how much YMMV when it comes to subjective preferences. I was so grateful that Amazon Prime somehow did justice to The Expanse [I highly recommend the novels, and feel the show was one of the best-ever translations of sci-fi to the screen] and could never get into the Wheel of Time book series [tho I guess that was Jordan, not Sanderson, shrug]. | |
| ▲ | tonyedgecombe an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | If they were serving the mass market then they would be making trash like Netflix. |
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| ▲ | smt88 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | TV productions are a product, not a service. Apple TV is the service. | | |
| ▲ | shermantanktop 23 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Apple has a tv service and Apple also has exclusive content, which they brand with “Apple TV”…so it’s kind of both. Same for the other big streaming services. Some of them (Netflix, Prime Video) are more involved in content production, up to and including having production facilities and an in house staff. But a lot of the “exclusive” branded content is made by semi-independent production companies. |
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| ▲ | kyriakos 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| As someone who owns zero apple hardware, I feel like Apple TV (the service) is probably the most consistent producer of high quality TV shows. |
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| ▲ | jangxx 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I actually like Fitness+, it got me working out for the first time in my life. |
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| ▲ | browningstreet 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Against Youtube Music and Spotify, Apple Music rates quite well, at least IMO. |
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| ▲ | addicted 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| "customer" is a much better term IMO. It indicates this is ultimately a transactional relationship where both sides have certain responsibilities. The customer the responsibility to provide the money, and the provider receiving the money has a responsibility to provide the customer with something, products or services, of value that makes their lives better. "user" is a worse term. It suggests that the "user" is simply utilizing the provider's products/services, and therefore they can't really complain about whatever the provider chooses to do in return, because the "user" can simply stop using. It's also not a coincidence, IMO, that drug addicts are also called "users" since "user" implies a one way dependent relationship and that's what all the tech companies have been trying to create. |
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| ▲ | swores 8 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > "It's also not a coincidence, IMO, that drug addicts are also called "users" since "user" implies a one way dependent relationship and that's what all the tech companies have been trying to create." You're drawing a connection that's not there. It's indeed not a coincidence, but just because both situations fit the definition of the word "user" (and "to use"). People use drugs, whether they're addicted or whether they're taking a one-off dose given to them by a doctor. They are a customer in that situation if they're buying the drug from somebody (illegal dealer, pharmacy), but they're a user whether they paid or not. Likewise, someone is a customer if Apple's if they paid for, or are expected to pay in the future, a device or service. But they're a user regardless of whether they're using a phone they bought, or a service that's being provided for free. People can use services provided by charities, they can use skis on a mountain... there's absolutely no negative connotation to its general definition, it just happens that some things people use are bad and some are good. | | |
| ▲ | genewitch 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | "And don't say 'do it' because i don't 'do it', i ingest it, on orders from my neurophysiologist." |
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| ▲ | mbreese 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I agree that “customer” is a better term. I’m not sure I agree with the rest of the rationale. In my mind, “user” stated to take over when we started having web based services that were used by people, but they were the ones paying. For example, Google and Facebook. Both got paid through ads, so they advertisers were the customers. The “users” were just the eyeballs the advertisers wanted to reach. So, you had to make your service compelling enough for someone to use for long enough that they’d see enough ads to make it profitable to provide the service. It’s more akin to talking about “viewers” or “viewership” when talking about more traditional media. For Apple, they are generally looking to get paid by the ultimate consumer of the product. So to them, we are the customers. | | |
| ▲ | rootusrootus 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | > In my mind, “user” stated to take over when we started having web based services that were used by people Maybe I'm just old, but we've called ... users ... 'user' since Unix or before. Perhaps it is just because Unix was integral to my early computing experience that I see it that way. | | |
| ▲ | tpmoney 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | User is definitely a term that long predates the modern SaaS world. And it’s an appropriate term in many cases because even today the customers of a computer hardware or software company are often not the same people using that hardware or software. I am the user of my work computer, but even as a software developer I am certainly not the “customer” of that purchase. My company has requirements as a customer that might be counter to my desires as a user. And likewise I have needs as a user that my company as a customer does not care about (except in so far as having those needs met allows me to do my job) |
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| ▲ | ginko 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | "user" feels quite descriptive and neutral to me. It's a person that uses the device they own or are given access to. That's it. I'm the (super-)user of my Linux PC. I have total ownership and control over it. Arguably "customer" makes the business relation to the provider of a service/device clearer. The term I hate with a burning passion is "consumer". | | |
| ▲ | Melonai 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Definitely agree on your last point, "consumer" is by far the most passive of the terms, and wholly represents the current idea that companies can simply shovel out anything, because "consumers" will simply consume either way. Of course this isn't magic, a single person won't change just because you call them a user or a consumer, but it reflects your view of them, and will inform your actions towards them. "customer" represents a two-sided relationship, and I do feel that "user" is kind of one-sided, but gives agency, a user will use a product for their own purposes, presumably to help them achieve some kind of goal. A "consumer" is completely passive, their main goal is to do what the company tells them to do. A customer can walk out of the relationship, a user might complain about problems they have with your product, but the consumer will simply continue consuming whatever you want them to consume. The worst part though, they seem to be mostly correct in their assessment. |
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| ▲ | esskay 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Arcade is comically poor value. I can't tell if Apple doesn't care, or they're just so deluded due to their insular nature and crap attitude towards gaming that they genuinely think its a good service to offer mediocre mobile games for a premium. |
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| ▲ | diegof79 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I agree that Arcade is poor. However, I’ve been subscribed to it since its inception because it is the best way to have games that my kid can play without shady ads or engagement practices. I know that is not going to last, as my kid is now a pre-teen and likes other types of games (like Hollow Knight) that are not available on Apple Arcade. But the current state of the gaming industry is terrible, especially on mobile. Indy companies producing games like Dead Cells, Hollow Knight, and Stray are good, and there is the extremely rare case of Larian. But other than that, the market is full of dark-UX patterns to promote app purchases. Mobile apps are a minefield of gacha games that should be forbidden for kids. | | |
| ▲ | crummy 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Agreed. "Free mobile game" almost certainly means "malicious gambling app" at this point. | |
| ▲ | mghackerlady 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Have you thought of getting your kid a nintendo console of some kind? A jailbroken 3DS seems like it'd be great for avoiding that kind of slop since the 3DSs app store died a few years ago | | |
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| ▲ | pbronez 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I thought the same until my kids started playing iPad games. Apple Arcade is way better than the baseline of aggressive ads and micro transactions. | | |
| ▲ | hed 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | Exactly. It's a way to get games that aren't going to immediately ask for other games to be bought or make you watch ridiculous ads to keep playing. | | |
| ▲ | bigyabai 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | The App Store really ought to just be a better platform in the first place. Apple is the one that let it accumulate slop, and now they're profiting off it's reputation for gambleslop apps. |
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| ▲ | lotsofpulp 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Arcade is amazing for my kids, it’s the one thing that pushes the value of Apple One bundle high enough for me to pay it. I assume all games not in Arcade have gambling mechanics. | | |
| ▲ | mbreese 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | The lack of microtransaction/loot box/forced ads/etc driven gameplay is why I keep it. If I can get versions of newer games without all of that cruft, I’m happy. I’m also happy that the game developer gets paid for it. |
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| ▲ | abustamam 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| "The only people who call customers 'users' are drug dealers and software companies." |
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| ▲ | dingaling an hour ago | parent [-] | | 'User' has been a term in computing for decades before the current Cloud Services fad ( hence uid ). One uses a hammer, one uses a microwave, one uses a computer, one uses a word processor. Nothing negative towards the user, they're being productive with the product. If anything it's derogatory in the other direction, towards the manufacturer, reducing the fruits of their labour to that of a simple tool. |
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| ▲ | mghackerlady 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Apple Arcade is pretty good, I imagine it's good for parents that want to make sure their kids are playing actually decent games instead of whatever slop you find on the app store or roblox |
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| ▲ | dangus 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > You now have Apple Fitness+, Apple TV, News, Music, Arcade. None of these are of any quality of what Apple used to be. It is really sad. News+ is the only one of these that has poor quality. Apple Music is extremely good, and pays artists better than many other platforms like Spotify. Unlike Spotify it isn’t enshittifying the product with AI music, video, and podcast distractions. The software is good quality, native code, not a web wrapper. Plus, there’s a classical music focused version that’s entirely separate. Fitness+ is a premier product in the space. Have you tried it? The workouts sync with your watch and it has top tier video production quality along with a ton of thought put into accessibility. Arcade probably does need to have more games added and more attention paid to it, but it’s basically the only place to get mobile games that aren’t stuffed full of gambling mechanics, pay to win, and advertisements. Apple TV+ is literally the new HBO. They produce some of the most critically acclaimed shows on the planet, and broke the record for number of Emmy nominations by a single studio last year. The software is actually good, which is only really true for TV+ and Netflix. The production values, bitrate, and technology integration (Dolby Atmos/Vision etc) is second to none. MLS coverage by Apple is also top tier, again, with other sports networks regularly broadcasting mediocre quality (bad colors, muddy details, poor on-screen graphics). They’re also getting F1 for US viewers which is almost certainly going to be an improvement over the status quo. |
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| ▲ | ravetcofx 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | > aren’t stuffed full of gambling mechanics and advertisements. Where can you get that from the Play Store? The Play Store Pass? Which not only has games but utilities https://play.google.com/store/pass/getstarted | | |
| ▲ | saithir 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Available offers
> Get offers for top games with Play Pass
> 50% zniżki na zakup w aplikacji
> Do 37 zł zniżki co tydzień
> Candy Crush Soda Saga Yeah, I would say a big ad for a game that is literally THE textbook example of gambling mechanics and dark patterns, followed by 10 other ads for games of the similar genre, is exactly what the previous poster does NOT want from a service like that. Oh and also from that page there's no telling at all what actual _games_ are included. The only slider on this page that lists anything is for different gambling slop "offers". That's not even in the same category as Apple Arcade. |
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| ▲ | xwkd 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Over the past decade, there's been a lot of regulation forcing Apple to open up their "Apple only" integrated platforms. It used to be the case that if Apple wanted to build a walled garden / cathedral, then in order to compete in the hardware marketplace they had to provide software that didn't suck. You knew that if you bought an Apple product, there was reasonable assurance that everything was tightly integrated. If it wasn't, you'd go buy a market alternative (Android, PC). In my mind, this means that they spent a lot of time and dev resources (i.e. money) on their Frameworks. I think it showed. Time was spent on design. They focused on opening up capabilities "the right way." Now that's pointless. If the iPhone is just an Android phone with a different coat of paint, then dev resources are going to be shifted to a place where Apple can distinguish themselves in the market, where they have platforms that they can control: Services. |
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| ▲ | dns_snek 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Can you support this unfalsifiable reasoning beyond blaming a convenient political scapegoat? Which paragraph of which article of which regulation requires them to deliver low-resolution PDFs in Apple News, for example? What about all the other issues? Your argument essentially boils down to: If Apple doesn't get to do whatever they want without compromise, their execs get too discouraged and depressed to innovate. The obvious conclusion is that the only way we can enjoy the unrivaled genius of Apple is to give them a blank check to do whatever they want. Every act of consumer protection and every form of pro-competitive regulation is twisted and exaggerated, no matter how insignificant it is to their bottom line or product functionality. The world is ending any time they don't get their way and when the world doesn't end, this decision becomes the scapegoat for all of their future faults, missteps, and bad performance. They can never do anything wrong and nothing is ever their fault, it's so so incredibly tiring to listen to this. | |
| ▲ | kaashif 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Which regulation made Apple News have low res PDFs? Which regulation made the search boxes in Liquid Glass transparent and show text from the window behind? The company as a whole has changed across the board. | |
| ▲ | wk_end 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The beginning of Apple’s backslide far predates any (thus far fairly limp-wristed) attempts by regulators to pry open their iOS walled garden. At least in North America - their biggest market I think? - the iPhone is still utterly locked down. Far more locked down than, say, their Macs were when OS X was at its best. Meanwhile macOS continues to get more locked down and yet still worse. Your theory just doesn’t match reality. | | |
| ▲ | iwontberude 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Every mobile device sold in North America is unlocked for carriers. That wasn’t the case back in the day. Also locking down macOS has been for security. It’s way ahead of other operating systems for sound and app security. |
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