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vee-kay 6 hours ago

Science has never been constrained by ethics.

The same scientists who cry about ethics, have happily experimented on mice and guinea pigs in their labs, even if it causes the deaths or distress of those little sentient beings.

Mutations/mutatives like Halo's Master Chief and Marvel's Super Soldier serum won't remain sci-fi for much longer, methinks.

a_better_world 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

former practicing scientist at an institute whose name you would recognize.

The field may not be fully constrained by ethics, which is just a way of saying that the work is done by people and people have varying ethical bounds, but from what I saw many of my colleagues were highly ethics driven.

I remember one Russian colleague who smuggled blood products out of Russia so they could be tested for HIV. Because the Russian government refused to help these patients. The man risked his life to help HIV sufferers.

Ethics is best when matched with courage, if a person is willing to put their life on the line for their beliefs.

Also noting that in the western world, experiments generally need approval of an ethics board before proceeding. That board's sense of ethics might make different judgments than you on, for example, mice experiments, but there is a big difference between "not constrained" and "some of the constraints are different than what I would choose".

where in this case, the ethics boards decided that provided a certain risk/reward barrier is crossed, and that the animals are otherwise treated well, sacrificing mice to improve human health is just fine.

That is an ethics based decision that was debated for a long time. And maybe should continue to be debated, there is real value in your stance that all beings are sentient and this demands a level of care.

vee-kay 2 hours ago | parent [-]

@a_better_world: (apt username for this conversation!)

I do understand what you mean, and I do comprehend that animal testing cannot be avoided for scientific advancements to help and progress humanity.

But I have a simple motto I want to adhere to (it is very hard though, to practice it in principle and action daily): Ethics is best when it is for the good of humanity, without being bad for Earth.

In recent years, I am starting to feel humanity is sharply veering away from its basic ethics (and the first ethic must be to not shit where one eats - but hey, we are actively aggressively destroying the only beautiful bountiful planet we know of, that can support humanity), and doing whatever the top richest most-powerful elites want.

And this unbridled greed and apathy is going to sow the seeds for the downfall of humanity, I'm afraid. At the cost of our precious Earth and its other denizens who share this planet with us humans.

There has been a catastrophic 73% decline in the average size of monitored wildlife populations* in just 50 years (1970-2020), according to World Wildlife Fund‘s (WWF) Living Planet Report 2024.

https://www.worldwildlife.org/news/press-releases/catastroph...

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5y3j0vzpl3o

Forests around the world disappeared at a rate of 18 soccer fields every minute, a global survey found.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/22/climate/deforestation-wri...

Our generation is the last one that can still save the wild forests of the Earth, which help us cope with the climate crisis and preserve the biodiversity of the planet. A new study by Greenpeace Russia and the University of Maryland has shown that if urgent and effective measures are not taken to preserve wild forests, most of them will disappear in the next 20 years.

https://www.greenpeace.org/international/story/51810/wild-fo...

melagonster 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

And save human life at the same time? Experiments are not just about torturing animals; people spend a lot of time optimizing for experiment design.

vee-kay 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Human life is meaningless to people without ethics. For them, humans are guinea pigs; or worse - slaves.

Talking of "human life" and "experiment", did you know about this billionaire chap and what he's been really doing in the name of science, experiment and charity? https://m.economictimes.com/industry/healthcare/biotech/heal...