FWIW both of these books were written about western societies. 1984 was about Orwell’s experience writing propaganda for the BBC during WW2. Oceania is explicitly modeled on the U.S. + Britain; “air strip one” is his tongue-in-cheek name for the British isles. Fahrenheit 451 is based on the second red scare and McCarthyism in the U.S. It’s explicitly set in America, and the inspiration for it was actual calls to ban books in the U.S.

They not only could happen here, they did happen here. It’s a testament to the power of propaganda that people view them as a hypothetical rather than as a lightly fictionalized documentary where the countries were changed to prevent the authors from going to jail.

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casenmgreen an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I looked to see if I could find anything asserting 1984 was about propaganda at BBC - nothing.

I found no interviews, no recordings - it seems what survives are his notebooks.

Can you describe the basis for the claim?

	▲	protocolture 21 minutes ago \| parent \| next [-]
		Its definitely an element, but it also mirrors some experiences in spain and ripping off Zamyatin's "We". Like if you take Zamyatin's "We", and make the main character a propagandist working for the government, you get 1984.
	▲	andy_ppp an hour ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		ChatGPT says his experience did make him think about bureaucracy in organisations leading to untruths but to say it’s the basis of 1984 is clearly absurd, it’s a much more complex book than an allegory of propaganda for the BBC.

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n1b0m 16 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

While it’s true that the day-to-day misery and bureaucratic absurdity of 1984 were heavily shaped by Orwell's time at the BBC, he primarily wrote the novel as a cautionary warning against the rise of totalitarianism and the dangers of a centralized, surveilled state.

Having witnessed the horrors of Nazi Germany, the rise of Stalinist Russia, and the Spanish Civil War, Orwell wanted to expose the mechanisms of oppression and propaganda.

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SapporoChris an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Thank you for inspiring me to look up the sources for the literary motifs in 1984.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four#Sources_f...

A very interesting read, but it did not verify any of your claims.

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indubioprorubik an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Eh, orwell got his fare share of socialisation with socialism in spain and became a ardent anti-communist (more anti-totalitarian after seeing what this "experiment was all about" when it betrayed the anarchists).

Its like animal farm a staunch criticism of the communist experiment and the societies it would form. The history rewritting was actually a typical socialist society pehnomena, going so far that china basically erased its whole past permanently. Its a incredible young country (barely 70 years old) and had to reimport a ton of its culture from taiwan!

Orwell lived through the hyper akward year, where hitler and stalin where allies and best friends - and thus saw the moscow controlled part of the international defending facists as best friends for a year, right after they stabbed the anarchists in the back in spain.