> A year or more ago, I read that both Anthropic and OpenAI were losing money on every single request even for their paid subscribers, and I don't know if that has changed with more efficient hardware/software improvements/caching.

This is obviously not true, you can use real data and common sense.

Just look up a similar sized open weights model on openrouter and compare the prices. You'll note the similar sized model is often much cheaper than what anthropic/openai provide.

Example: Let's compare claude 4 models with deepseek. Claude 4 is ~400B params so it's best to compare with something like deepseek V3 which is 680B params.

Even if we compare the cheapest claude model to the most expensive deepseek provider we have claude charging $1/M for input and $5/M for output, while deepseek providers charge $0.4/M and $1.2/M, a fifth of the price, you can get it as cheap as $.27 input $0.4 output.

As you can see, even if we skew things overly in favor of claude, the story is clear, claude token prices are much higher than they could've been. The difference in prices is because anthropic also needs to pay for training costs, while openrouter providers just need to worry on making serving models profitable. Deepseek is also not as capable as claude which also puts down pressure on the prices.

There's still a chance that anthropic/openai models are losing money on inference, if for example they're somehow much larger than expected, the 400B param number is not official, just speculative from how it performs, this is only taking into account API prices, subscriptions and free user will of course skew the real profitability numbers, etc.

Price sources:

https://openrouter.ai/deepseek/deepseek-v3.2-speciale

https://claude.com/pricing#api

▲

Someone1234 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> This is obviously not true, you can use real data and common sense.

It isn't "common sense" at all. You're comparing several companies losing money, to one another, and suggesting that they're obviously making money because one is under-cutting another more aggressively.

LLM/AI ventures are all currently under-water with massive VC or similar money flowing in, they also all need training data from users, so it is very reasonable to speculate that they're in loss-leader mode.

	▲	nodja 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Doing some math in my head, buying the GPUs at retail price, it would take probably around half a year to make the money back, probably more depending how expensive electricity is in the area you're serving from. So I don't know where this "losing money" rhetoric is coming from. It's probably harder to source the actual GPUs than making money off them.