Can someone that uses Matrix compare it to Zulip? Which would have been my "obvious" choice.

Is it functionally comparable, discussion threads and all? Or is it much closer to something like Discord?

Arathorn 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Matrix is a decentralised encrypted chat protocol on which you could build something like Zulip, except decentralised and end-to-end encrypted.

Element is the actual app being trialled here, which feels more like Slack and/or Signal than Zulip. The point is that you get something you can selfhost while also interoperating with other deployments… while also encrypting the data end-to-end with Signal protocol.

▲

pm3003 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Federation can feel like "just a feature" but the E2E encryption (also in group chats) is a reason for Matrix to exist and a big reason why it's so slow.

▲

ezst 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It's so slow because it's so badly designed as a protocol, E2E isn't really the problem (the slowness is roughly equivalent for non-encrypted rooms)

▲

dpc_01234 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

"Slow" in what sense? Development? Because I self host a Conduit server and I don't ever notice messages being slow. It would be hard to notice anyway, as in a group chat people usually take some time to type in their responses.

The sync between large groups used to be slow because of amount of data, but Element X and "sliding windows" were rolled out to help with it.

AFAIK, the public Matrix server used to be slow because of a heavy load (I think), but on my self-hosted instance that's not a problem at all.

	▲	JuniperMesos 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		The experience of using Matrix involves a lot of sluggishness at various points in the client - waiting to decrypt messages or properly sync keys, waiting to join a room or for room search to load - these are the things that have been salient to me using multiple matrix clients with a freshly-spun-up server within the past month.

▲

solarkraft 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> on which you could build something like Zulip

I hope that at some point a focus of the Matrix project will become why this isn’t being done. A better developer experience would supercharge the ecosystem, IMO.

Matrix should be the default for anyone building a chat app, but for some reason it’s not.

▲

tamimio 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Yeah I would love to see a new professional application based on Matrix, Element is buggy, other apps lacking too.

▲

blitzar 5 hours ago | parent [-]

> Element is buggy

Someone should tell the CEO/CTO of Element

▲

Arathorn 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Speaking as the CEO/CTO of Element... the classic Element apps on mobile were buggy, thanks to being a ~10 year old codebase with no shared code between platforms and effectively the 1st generation Matrix client. Which is why we replaced them over the last few years with Element X, with all the heavy lifting shared between iOS & Android via matrix-rust-sdk (effectively a 3rd gen Matrix SDK).

That said, 70% of our users haven't got the memo yet - we'll do a hard-upgrade when the remaining missing features in Element X (Spaces & Threads) are fully out of Labs.

Meanwhile, Element Web is lagging behind Element X - but we're now in the middle of an incremental in-place upgrade (not a big-bang rewrite, thank goodness) to use matrix-rust-sdk - see our talk from FOSDEM last Sunday for the details: https://fosdem.org/2026/schedule/event/DZJVTS-an-element-web...

▲

JuniperMesos an hour ago | parent | next [-]

> That said, 70% of our users haven't got the memo yet - we'll do a hard-upgrade when the remaining missing features in Element X (Spaces & Threads) are fully out of Labs.

This isn't users not getting the memo yet, this is users being faced with an unfortunate choice between a buggy, slow client and a new client that doesn't implement important functionality like Spaces and Threads.

▲

Flere-Imsaho an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Can i ask why is Element Classic even available on the Google Play Store? If you want people to move away from this?

I've only started my Matrix journey, in the form of writing bots using the matrix Python library. I'm keeping my fingers crossed, as the Matrix protocol could be really impactful.

	▲	pseudalopex an hour ago \| parent [-]
		He said Element X missed Spaces & Threads.

▲

solarkraft 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I’m excited to watch the talk. I’m generally critical of Matrix, but that’s because I want it to succeed. Lately I find you’ve been doing a lot of things right, so I hope you keep going!

▲

markush_ 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It’s very cool and inspiring to see the CEO posting here. Keep up the amazing work!

▲

edoceo 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Arathorn is the CEO. I bet you knew that. At the time I write this your comment is grey. Maybe context was missing; or they think you're snark.

▲

andrewaylett 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They are different, and the biggest reason is (I suspect) that a Zulip workspace is self-contained while a Matrix server is able to federate with other Matrix servers.

Other European institutions are also adopting Matrix, so federation may turn out to be an important feature.

▲

Macha 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Matrix has threads. So does discord, but discords UI around them basically renders them functionally useless.

Anyway, the first goal listed in this project was to move to European sovereign solutions so Zulip failed at the first hurdle.

Given the (lack of) speed of European bureaucracy, this is likely more a reaction to the US sanctioning the ICC than the more recent Greenland saber rattling, but you'll probably see more of this in the future.

▲

JuniperMesos an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I wouldn't say Discord threads are useless - I do wish the UI made them more obvious, but I'm in many discord chats that use threads all the time.

Matrix has threads in a sense, but in this very thread the project lead is talking about how the new, ostensibly less buggy and more performant flagship client does not yet fully support them.

▲

pseudalopex 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Anyway, the first goal listed in this project was to move to European sovereign solutions so Zulip failed at the first hurdle.

Element Creations Ltd and The Matrix.org Foundation CIC are UK companies.

▲

Arathorn 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Element Software SARL and Element Software GmbH however are not. In practice I believe it's Element Software GmbH providing the European Commission deployment of ESS. (Both are owned by the UK topco, but at the current rate we might flip one of them to be the topco instead).

	▲	pseudalopex 4 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Subsidiaries mean nothing. Microsoft have EU subsidiaries also. And might means might not.

▲

Macha 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The UK is in Europe. Brexit didn't float the country out several hundred miles.

▲

pseudalopex 4 hours ago | parent [-]

The Declaration for European Digital Sovereignty defined digital sovereignty as the EU and its Member States' ability to act autonomously and to freely choose their own solutions, while reaping the benefits of collaboration with global partners, when possible. The UK is not the EU or a member state.

Part of Russia is in Europe. Do you believe Russian products were considered?

▲

Macha 4 hours ago | parent [-]

And this comment chain adds what exactly?

It’s pretty obvious why the UK is considered more European than the US, and equally obvious too why Russia is not considered in that tent.

Pretending it’s not just so you can disagree with a comment adds nothing and is an example of why HN is so often a tedious place.

	▲	pseudalopex an hour ago \| parent [-]
		The EU's definition of digital sovereignty included collaboration with global partners. It is obvious why UK companies could be considered more reliable global partners than US or Russian companies. A muddled concept of European was not needed to explain it. If where an open source solution was developed mattered even.