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FeteCommuniste 18 hours ago

> Around 90% of superstar adults had not been superstars as children, while only 10% of top-level kids had gone on to become exceptional adults (see chart 1). It is not just that exceptional performance in childhood did not predict exceptional performance as an adult. The two were actually negatively correlated, says Dr Güllich.

Even if "only" 10% of elite kids go on to become elite adults, 10% is orders of magnitude larger than the base percentage of adults who are elite athletes, musicians, etc. This doesn't sound "uncorrelated" to me so much as "not as strongly correlated as one might expect."

And describing something that happens 10% of the time as "rare" sounds a bit weird, like referring to left-handedness (also about 1 in 10) as rare.

jacinda 18 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This is an excellent point! People often forget that something uncommon out of a much larger pool is still larger than anything that comes from a smaller pool (base rate neglect).

https://www.simplypsychology.org/base-rate-fallacy.html

> For example, given a choice of the two categories, people might categorize a woman as a politician rather than a banker if they heard that she enjoyed social activism at school—even if they knew that she was drawn from a population consisting of 90% bankers and 10% politicians (APA).

The general population is much larger than the population of child prodigies.

mac3n an hour ago | parent [-]

> The general population is much larger than the population of child prodigies.

have we forgotten Lake Wobegon?

Nition 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You also need to know the percentage of children that become prodigies before you can calculate exactly how much more likely they are to become elite adults.

e.g. If 1% of children are prodigies, prodigies are around 10x as likely to become elite as non-prodigies.

If 0.1% of children are prodigies, prodigies are around 100x as likely to become elite as non-prodigies.

Or in the rather unlikely case that 10% of children are prodigies, non-prodigies become elite at exactly the same rate as prodigies - 10%.

Balgair 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

--Even if "only" 10% of elite kids go on to become elite adults, 10% is orders of magnitude larger than the base percentage of adults who are elite athletes, musicians, etc. This doesn't sound "uncorrelated" to me so much as "not as strongly correlated as one might expect."

The way that I read the original study was that only 10% of elite adults were also elite youth.

Not that 10% of elite youth become elite adults.

That distinction is the key and surprising. Elite level talent and training and dollar spending in the youth is not then well correlated with elite level practice in adults across many disciplines.

As in your country's elite youth training centers (science, music, futbol, Olympic sports, etc) are mostly wasting money.

MrSkelter 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You are fundamentally misunderstanding the statistics. 10% of top level adults is a smaller percentage of elite performers than should have been represented by the class of hothoused kids. I.e. it should have been 12% or 15%.

FeteCommuniste 12 hours ago | parent [-]

I don't think so? If 0.01% of kids are prodigies then the fact that 10% of them go on to become elite adults means that a prodigy has a far better chance at becoming elite than someone taken at random from the general population of kids.

kjshsh123 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don't think you would be using the general population as the control group.

You're not going to take elite chess kids and then random kids and compare in 10 years and see anything interesting. Elite chess kids will be better considering most people don't even play chess...

Anyway, I understand being skeptical, and I'm not a fan of pop economics stuff like this, but I still imagine the researchers thought of this.

jhallenworld 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's like those articles that say super high IQ people are not always successful.

So I think human brain development is like some kind of optimization algorithm, like simulated annealing or gradient descent. I think this because there is way more complexity in the brain than there is in human DNA, which has pretty low information by comparison. Anyway, child prodigies occur when the algorithm happens to find a good minimum early on.

Retric 18 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Prodigies almost always spend vastly more time doing their thing than the average kid. So it’s not just some random outcome.

That relative advantage goes away as people age and specialize.

ozim 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Around puberty brain drops loads of connections to become an adult brain.

More than 40% of all synapses are eliminated.

volemo 8 hours ago | parent [-]

Source? Why would the organism build all those synapses for 14 years just to drop half of them?

ozim 8 hours ago | parent [-]

LMGTFY:

https://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/the-adolescent-...

bsder 17 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In addition, there is a vast difference between say tennis, a sport, and chess, a purely mental activity.

A child prodigy in tennis may find that their body didn't grow in such a way to be a pro as an adult. If your opponents are taller, stronger, have better VO2Max, etc. than you as an adult, it doesn't matter how good you were as a child--they're going to beat you as an adult.

Chess, of course, now provides the stark reverse contrast. If you weren't a child prodigy in chess, you simply will not excel against the competition as an adult.

mamonster 13 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Instead of tennis I would use basketball.

You can be the #1 rated player up to your last year of high school but if you don't hit the growth spurt required for your position your career will take a completely different turn. Conversely, it is the only sport I am aware of where you have people playing at the highest level who picked up their first basketball at 16

paulmooreparks 16 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

There's a saying about golf that probably applies to chess: The best way to improve is to go back in time and learn it at an earlier age.

thesz 16 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This is a story of how one became better golf player by increasing his strength: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr2pgBTRpK4

One can enhance cognitive functions by strength training: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8534220/

Aside from time travel, the best way to improve in very important things is through strength training.

paulmooreparks 16 hours ago | parent [-]

The saying isn't "The only way..." but "The best way...". Of course one may improve with all the things you mention, and it's a tongue-in-cheek statement anyway, but there's a grain of truth to it. I saw it quoted by one of the greatest teachers in golf, Harvey Penick.

deaux 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Similarly, it's probably not a coincidence that the best F1 driver happens to be the one who started driving karts the earliest (4 years old) and spent the most time doing it out of even all those elite ones.

nothercastle 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Being smart isn’t enough need resources and need to deal with people

1980phipsi 17 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This sounds like Berkson’s paradox.

davidguetta 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

yeah. child prodigies may just change interest after a while