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bandrami 2 hours ago

It's a tale as old as time that developers, particularly junior developers, are convinced they could "slap together something in one weekend" that would replace expensive SAAS software and "just do the parts of it we actually use". Unfortunately, the same arguments against those devs regular-coding a bespoke replacement apply to them vibe-coding a bespoke replacement: management simply doesn't want to be responsible for it. I didn't understand it before I was in management either, but now that I'm in management I 100% get it.

dzonga 2 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

& the counter-argument is those SAAS apps being killed by A.I are growing revenue 20%+ YOY

people who write this BS - one never don't understand SAAS fundamentals, they only see what's on the screen and forget the complexity that lives on the backend - forget the costs of running such a SAAS

before it was low-code will kill SAAS, then Visual UI builders, now its A.I

just like it was before that crypto will kill Trad-Fi

people who say these things - have tied their identity into it so they whole-heartedly believe the bullshit they say even though reality doesn't match

to anyone curious read the 10k (Annual Report) of any public SAAS - Salesforce | Workday etc - people should admire these companies for the machines / ecosystem they built - and also learn the good & mistakes to avoid i.e the bad

those annual reports tell you how the revenue generation machine works, how much revenue is expected 2+ / 3+ years from now - their weaknesses | headwinds and also tailwinds - how those companies grow and continue to grow etc

cj 22 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What I struggle with is developers wanting to leave platforms like Datadog for open source equivalents that need to be self-hosted.

I hear all of the cost savings benefit, but I never see the team factoring in their own time (and others time) needed to set up and maintain these systems reliably long term.

Something IC’s at company often struggle to understand is the reason why companies often prefer to buy managed solutions even when “free” alternatives exist (read: the free alternatives are also expensive, just a different type of cost)

3 minutes ago | parent | next [-]
[deleted]
brianwawok 13 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

My log bill for Google cloud log would be like 30k. For splunk I like 80k. I self host for 1.5k per month. Spend maybe an hour a month? Easiest money I ever made.

john-h-k 2 minutes ago | parent [-]

This is the exception to the rule

sdf2erf a minute ago | parent | prev [-]

Because most of them arent trained to think economically... how many people on the planet do you think are aware of the notion of opportunity cost?

mym1990 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

We are certainly closer now to being able to prototype and go to market faster with a product. In one weekend is a little much but I think its hard to deny that building will continue to expedite. What most developers don't think about is that the marketing, sales, customer service are all non-trivial parts of the business/product and all require legwork that is more than just sitting at an IDE. The nail in the coffin is that the data is a large part of company moats, and new products need time in the market to get that. Migration is also a long process and risky...so to get customers, a newcomer needs to provide way more value than what the incumbent gives.

I imagine you're going to have people trying to automate the whole GTM lifecycle, but eventually the developer that thinks they can bootstrap a one man enterprise without actually doing any kind of social interaction will run into a wall.

overfeed 33 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

> We are certainly closer now to being able to prototype and go to market faster with a product.

What are the higher-order effects when anyone can do this, and *aaS becomes a market for Lemons?

trhway 12 minutes ago | parent [-]

in the 90-ies anyone could easily prototype with tools like Access. That still didn't preclude companies from buying their major software from software vendors instead of doing it themselves.

In some sense having customer able to prototype what they want is a good thing. I did it myself as i was at the time on that side, and having a quick-whip-it tool was a good thing to quickly get some feature that was missing in the major software before that major software would add it (if at all). (And if one remembers for example Crystal Reports - while for "reports", it and the likes were in many senses such quick-whip-it tools for a lot of such customization that was doable by the customer.)

So, after initial aftershock - "Ahhhh, we don't need software companies anymore!" - we'll get to the state with software companies still doing their thing just with a lot of AI as "specialization" is one of the main thing in modern economy.

(Of course some companies wouldn't survive the transition just like some companies didn't survive the transitions to client/server, cloud, etc.)

risyachka 37 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In any usable product making a product is like 20% or less. Enter compliance, security, payments and a million other things.

Even if you can build it in a day B2B SaaS will continue to prosper because they sell peace of mind, reliability and compliance. Not features.

Also due to economy of scale it will always be cheaper to buy something from a vendor that sells it to many clients than to DIY it.

icedchai 32 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Yep. Wait until they realize one of their vibe coded apps validates everything client side and their entire DB is open to the world.

scotty79 19 minutes ago | parent [-]

Like that never happened with non-vibecoded stuff.

AlienRobot 17 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Yep. It's a funny thing.

You build a Twitter. Profiles have posts, posts can have images, etc. It's very easy to model the database.

But then how do you make money with it? Now you need to build a separate system for advertising? Or do you want to sell subscriptions? Which means you need to build a separate system to handle payments. This is usually the big one, because when you handle money, what happens if there is a bug and you charge someone without delivering anything? How do you prevent fraud? How do you handle disputes?

Someone posted something illegal. What do you do in this situation? Do you call the police? The FBI? What kind of data do you give the authorities? How much data SHOULD you have been logging in the first place in case something like this happens?

One user doesn't like you so he bought a botnet to DDoS your website. How do you handle this? Are they mass posting? Mass creating accounts? Is it possible for them to exhaust all the usernames possible and then nobody can create an account anymore?

Your website is online but if the server blows up you'll lose all the data in the database. You need backups. You need a system to ensure the backups are actually working. But then some guy from the UK said he wants his posts all deleted. What are you going to do now, because his posts are also in the backups, and you don't want to touch those.

Trolls are posting things against the ToS. Who handles these things? Shadowban? So there needs to be a shadowban system? Moderators? So there needs to be a moderator-only section of the website? Should this be integrated with the main website or not?

Then you look at this horrendous mess of 6 paragraphs and you think back about the first paragraph that already did everything you wanted from Twitter. All these other systems, most of the work, and all you actually wanted was the first paragraph.

re-thc an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

> We are certainly closer now to being able to prototype and go to market faster with a product.

Prototype maybe. Go to market maybe not so. It's giving false hope. You're just taking more shortcuts with prototyping.

baxtr an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This vibe-coding-will-replace-SaaS insanity is the new crypto-will-replace-fiat-money insanity.

DebtDeflation an hour ago | parent | next [-]

It's shocking to me how prevalent this "who needs Salesforce when everyone can just vibe code their own CRM from scratch in a day" narrative has become in the business press. Like, what???

vdfs 35 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

That's not like "Who need Photoshop everyone can just vibe code their own photoshop"

They could just download GIMP or find cheaper alternative, that was always an option

ozim 7 minutes ago | parent [-]

Same with „building custom businesses stuff” you can already do it quicker with existing CRM configuration without burning tokens.

coffeebeqn 43 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

I vibe coded Stripe and Okta in a weekend. Time to deploy to prod and save some money!

rishabhaiover an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

No serious programmer "vibe" codes. I admit creating SaaS may not be feasible with current infrastructure but you can't ignore the insane jump in productivity that these tools can offer with the right scaffolding.

turnsout an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

People really seem to believe that code is the only thing you need to make a SaaS company. It's like thinking a line cook is all you need to open a restaurant. There are so, so many other components to running a business.

baxtr an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I agree!

Although the proponents of this idea argue that companies will create and (!) maintain many tools in-house.

It’s not so much about running a business, since you don’t sell anything and only have internal customers.

scotty79 17 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

SaaS is mostly sales.

turnsout 11 minutes ago | parent [-]

100%, particularly B2B SaaS

snowwrestler 18 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I totally agree about the management reluctance to just own everything in house.

But I think it’s plausible that SaaS companies will be easier to start with AI coding, and with lower costs (thanks to AI) they will be able to get into the black with a smaller addressable market. So each one can have a different mix of fewer features, for different segments of customers, at lower prices.

The result would be a loss of pricing power by the incumbent do-everything big guys: no more baked-in 10% annual increases. Which is still a pretty big change in their economics. And therefore valuations.

jonwinstanley 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

So you think this downturn will be short lived?

When management realise that the vibe coded projects are not maintainable, SAAS will be as popular as ever

osigurdson an hour ago | parent | next [-]

It seems that current advantages would compound with AI. I.e., if I am making a SaaS for Popsicle stick makers today, why I am disadvantaged with AI vs a new competitor in the space? I guess the hypothesis is the Popsicle stick maker will vibe code all of the software that they need instead. For that, we need significantly better AI than we have today - perhaps something like a 1000X improvement. Basically, this is a world in which non-technical grandparents can vibe code anything that they want. This means, it understands what you want without you being able to articulate it well in the first place.

bandrami an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don't do tea leaves so I wouldn't commit to that, particularly because I think SAAS was oversold in general even before LLMs came out. But I think the idea that the industry as a whole will shrivel away just isn't feasible, even if there is a correction.

sbarre an hour ago | parent [-]

The B2B startup motto of "where someone is using Excel to do something other than accounting, there's a startup waiting to happen" has been shockingly resilient over the decades, and I suspect will continue to be.

robocat an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Paper forms used to be our main competitor.

Paper forms have some amazing features that software really can't compete with. And also some significant downsides that software fixes.

Thorentis an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

We need a new one: "Where someone is using a vibe-coded internal tool made by the creative department that keeps needing bug fixes, there's a start up waiting to happen."

strangattractor an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

All of the hype surrounding AI will subside when a SaaS company eventually deploys a moltbot version of their software and the company is driven out of existence due to the chaos that ensues.

strange_quark 38 minutes ago | parent [-]

So… next week then?

dolphinscorpion 37 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In many cases, it's not a downturn, just a return to reasonable valuations. Other sectors should follow

kakacik an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

They will magically realize this when their huge bonuses will be tied to something longer lasting than last quarter/year performance on some very narrow metric (which has nothing to do with sane stuff like adding long term value to some part of the company).

They are not stupid, far from it, most are (very) high functioning sociopaths. And out and up there its everybody for themselves first.

mittensc an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

what if this time it's senior developers and they actually can slap something together better then the expensive SAAS offerings?

what if the expensive SAAS offering is just as vibe coded and poor quality as what a junior offers?

pm90 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Clubbing all saas products together just means you can’t really have a productive discussion. Saas products are on a spectrum of quality, from amazing (stripe, datadog) to terrible (fivetran, github). Its upto you as a user to make a call as to which will serve you best, what you should focus your limited resources on etc.

ytoawwhra92 37 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You're not considering opportunity costs and buyers vs. users.

If your senior developers can slap together something better than an expensive SAAS offering you want them directing that energy at your core products/services rather than supporting tools.

And the people deciding to buy the expensive SAAS tools are often not the people using them, and typically don't care too much about how crappy the tool may or may not be for doing the job it's advertising as doing.

runako an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> what if this time it's senior developers and they actually can slap something together better then the expensive SAAS offerings

A typical SaaS customer will use many pieces of software (we mostly call them SaaS now) across its various functions: HR, accounting, CRM, etc. Each one of those will have access to the same pool of senior devs and AI tools, but they will pour more resources into each area and theoretically deliver better software.

The bigger issue here is the economics of the C-suite have not changed here. Assume a 100 CPG company uses 10-20 SaaS apps. Salesforce might be $100k/year or whatever. 1Password is $10k. Asana $10k. etc. They add up, but on the other hand it is not productive to task a $150k employee with rebuilding a $10k tool. And even with AI, it would take a lot of effort to make something that will satisfy a team accustomed to any modern SaaS tool like Salesforce or Atlassian. (Engineers will not even move off Github, and it's literally built on free software.)

That's before I get to sensitive areas. Do you want to use a vibe-coded accounting system? Inventory system? Payroll? You can lose money, employees, and customer perception very rapidly due to some bugs. Who wants to be responsible for all their employee passwords are compromised because they wanted to save $800/mo?

Then, the gains from cutting SaaS are capped. You can only cut your SaaS spend to zero. On the other hand, if you have those engineers you can point them at niche problems in your business niche (which you know better than anyone) and create conditions for your business to grow faster. The returns from this are uncapped.

TL;DR; it's generally not a great idea to build in-house unless your requirements are essentially bespoke.

bandrami 41 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

As my manager said to a young me when I offered to replace our CMS, and promised I could do a good job at it, "you could probably assemble our office furniture too, but I don't want to pay you to do that either"

ralnivar 17 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

We have replaced many SaaS with inhouse solutions, but most of these where lacking in quality and where part of our existing core business model which we where not "owning" prior. We can flip the argument where we have lost customers and revenue due to SaaS not delivering

The gains is generally more seen outside of monetary as these SaaS solutions where holding us back for achieving our goals and improving our services to our customers. As in the end of the day our customers do not care if "insert SaaS" is having issues, it will always be our problem to own.

bandrami an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

To the first question, if your senior devs can do that there's almost certainly something more directly valuable to your business they could be doing than solving a problem your vendor has already solved

The second question is a valid one, and I think it will somewhat raise the bar of what successful SAAS vendors will have to offer in coming years

g947o an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It that works, nobody would be using Jira anymore, because people would just use a competitor that's cheaper or vibe code their internal Jira tool.

Somehow that has not happened yet in 2026.

mym1990 an hour ago | parent [-]

This is because what management wants and what builders want are not aligned, not because the quality of JIRA is so amazing that no other alternative could ever be created. JIRA is fine but many people I know that use have some qualms with it because the bloat is pretty crazy.

bandrami an hour ago | parent [-]

As Spolsky said a quarter century ago, "bloat" is just "bugs somebody already fixed". (He may have actually said that about "cruft", but the idea still applies.)

HeyLaughingBoy 8 minutes ago | parent [-]

Hard to believe that it was that long ago!

sbarre an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There are of course exceptions to every rule, and I'm sure some companies have been successful in building their own in-house tooling.

At the end of the day these decisions are all series of trade-offs, and the trick is understanding your requirements and capabilities well enough to make the right trade-offs.

kakacik an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Nice what ifs, but not valid so far. I get the motivation to think/hope so, but thats not the proper business world right now where big money are. Maybe next year it could start becoming true but then market will be a bit different too

scotty79 25 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Your profit margin is my opportunity.

misiti3780 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

sorry, what do you mean?

sbarre 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

1. Enthusiastic employee (vibe-)codes a replacement for a turnkey SaaS product that the company uses.

2. Company uses it, maybe even starts to rely on it for important business operations, and for a time the employee supports that app.

3. Bugs creep in, feature request pile up.

4. Employee either leaves the company or moves on to another project.

5. Pain

hbn 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

And don't forget the safety in getting to say "our systems are down because of [X TRUSTED SOFTWARE FROM LARGE KNOWN BRAND] and we're just waiting for them to fix it" instead of "our shitty internal tooling is broken and no one knows how to fix it"

sbarre an hour ago | parent [-]

Yes that's reverse-implied(??) in the "Pain" step. ;-)

aspenmartin an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This feels like it goes along the lines of "people's vibe code is cluttering up our PR's, people still need to review" -- it misses the boat: models are already capable of getting you up to speed on how the code is organized and works, in as much as you want to or need to be up to speed. They are already helping me cut down review time because I don't need to aimlessly hop around, I have a good starting point that I can scrutinize and dialogue about. Same thing here: employee leaves company -- about 3 years ago you would be right, now the company is left with an unmaintainable mess of legacy code and tech debt. TODAY this just doesn't matter. No one really needs to read that code too closely, it's already easy for agents to digest and explain and modify.

Doing this today, in production, with full trust, is clearly not wise, but the writing is clearly on the wall that this is going to be the norm more and more over the coming years. The times they are a-changin.

bandrami an hour ago | parent [-]

I think it has to actually work at least once before we can start predicting it will be the norm.

pverheggen an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think you can avoid the pain by thoughtfully designing it to avoid lock-in. You want it so that if needed, a dev can vibe-code a migration tool to the equivalent SaaS offering. AI lowers the barrier for creating these in-house replacements, but it also lowers the barrier for scrapping them too.

runako 40 minutes ago | parent [-]

The thing about lower barriers is that it makes it easier for e.g. Salesforce to raise the level of expectations. And that's the moving target. New employees will come from elsewhere and wonder how a company is operating using tools from 2020 when X, Y, Z are becoming industry standard.

The key here is that the moving target will _never_ be "what can 1-2 people vibe code without any expectation of being the best at what it does?"

(Also: training people on bespoke tools takes much longer than training on configurations of standard tools. Imagine if you had to learn a new source control system at every job, like in the '80s.)

mamcx 22 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Even more accurate (I work in this space):

3. Bugs creep in, feature request pile up.

4. Employee continue in the company and request help (or the managers see the need):

4.1 They hire more, but if all are vibe-coders too

4.1.1 The product gets more complicated (no more complex, that good developers can manage!)

4.1.2 Bugs creep in, feature request pile up.

4.1.3 People start to get desperate, not worries! now:

4.1.3.1 Somebody vibe-code a new alternative that solves the immediate problem

4.1.3.2 Bugs creep in, feature request pile up.

4.1.3.3 Needs to sync with the other tools

4.1.3.3.1 Somebody vibe-code the sync that solves the immediate problem

(the saga continue)

In parallel:

4.2 Eventually is obvious that need external help

THEN:

4.2.1 They ask for consultors for build tool, of course, from a company that has embraced the IA!

4.2.2 They build new shinny tool!

4.2.3 Bugs creep in, feature request pile up.

4.2.4 Needs to sync with the other tools ....

AND:

4.3.1 They ask for consultors, to teach them what to do, of course, from a company that has embraced the IA!

4.3.2 New shinny theory of how do the thing with IA is now being implemented!

4.3.3 It require a rewrite of not only past solutions but, a change of how the company behave!

4.3.3.1 Needs to sync with the other tools .......

4.3.4 And it spark beautiful office/political debates around some philosophical whatever that also trigger changes in the structure, hiring or whatever, alienating the people that has been working there, that after months, has started getting the handle of it!

4.3.5 Employees either leaves the company or moves on to another project.

4.3.6 New employees arrive, with a wild new IA tool and different vibes that vibe-coding!

... the saga continues

5. Is now clear that it need to buy a product form a well stablished software provider

5.1 And all of them are now in the IA craze!

.............

vladms 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If I understand correctly many organizations will not develop original stuff internally, because nobody internally wants to be the one is shouted at if something goes wrong.

bandrami 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

That's a huge part of it. But also you presumably hired a full-time programmer for a reason, and in almost every case that reason was not to have somebody to write and maintain your CRM system. So any system they build and maintain is not just another thing for you to worry about, it's a huge chunk of time that the developer isn't doing what you hired them for.

dyauspitr an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Depends on the size of the organization.

bandrami an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

If software already exists that does X, X is a solved problem. You didn't hire a developer to solve already-solved problems.

ozim 24 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

I like to bring up JIRA example. You could replace it in-house yeah it is just tickets with statuses. /s

But then keep in mind one who built the replacement will become the owner of an application that business doesn’t want to pay for and that person will be cost center for the company.

That person better get marketing and negotiating skills that Atlassian has on board because that person will be responsible for the app and will not be getting salary increases for working on something that is not core business of the company.

Even if you can make LLM to do the app for you.