| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 12 hours ago |
| > Everything about operating a datacenter in space is more difficult than it is to operate one on earth Minus one big one: permitting. Every datacentre I know going up right now is spending 90% of their bullshit budget on battlig state and local governments. |
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| ▲ | dantillberg 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| But since building a datacenter almost anywhere on the planet is more convenient than outer space, surely you can find some suitable location/government. Or put it on a boat, which is still 100 times more sensible than outer space. |
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| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 11 hours ago | parent [-] | | > since building a datacenter almost anywhere on the planet is more convenient than outer space, surely you can find some suitable location/government More convenient. But I'm balancing the cost equation. There are regimes where this balances. I don't think we're there yet. But it's irrational to reject it completely. > Or put it on a boat, which is still 100 times more sensible than outer space More corrosion. And still, interconnects. | | |
| ▲ | GCUMstlyHarmls 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | > More corrosion Surely given starlinks 5ish year deorbit plan, you could design a platform to hold up for that long... And instead of burning the whole thing up you could just refurbish it when you swap out the actual rack contents, considering that those probably have an even shorter edge lifespan. | | |
| ▲ | m4rtink 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | Starlinks are built to safely burn up on re-entry. A big reusable platform will have to work quite differently to never uncontrollably re-enter, or it might kill someone by high velocity debris on impact. This adds weight and complexity and likely also forces a much higher orbit. | | |
| ▲ | necovek 9 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Hopefully a sea platform does not end up flying into space all of its own, only to crash and burn back down. Maybe the AI workloads running on it achieve escape velocity? ;) | |
| ▲ | vlovich123 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I can’t wait for all the heavy metals that are put into GPUs and other electronics showering down on us constantly. Wonder why the billionaires have their bunkers. | | |
| ▲ | reverius42 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yeah, "burn up safely on reentry". 100 years later: "why does everything taste like cadmium?" |
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| ▲ | m4rtink 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| If you think there is no papework necessary for launching satellites, you are very very wrong. |
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| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > If you think there is no papework necessary for launching satellites, you are very very wrong I would be. And granted, I know a lot more about launching satellites than building anything. But it would take me longer to get a satellite in the air than the weeks it will take me to fix a broken shelf in my kitchen. And hyperscalers are connecting in months, not weeks. | |
| ▲ | o333 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Swear that fella is like the Elon Musk of HN - when he talks about subject outside of his domain he gets caught out. | | |
| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | > when he talks about subject outside of his domain Hate to burst your bubble. But I have a background in aerospace engineering. I’ve financed stuff in this field, from launch vehicles to satellites. And I own stakes in a decent chunk of the plays in this field. Both for and against this hypothesis. So yeah, I’ll hold my ground on having reasonable basis for being sceptical of blanket dismissals of this idea as much as I dismiss certainty in its success. There are a lot of cheap shots around AI and aerospace. Some are coming from Musk. A lot are coming from one-liner pros. HN is pretty good at filtering those to get the good stuff, which is anyone doing real math. | | |
| ▲ | KingMob 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | That actually confirms what the other commenter said. Your assertion was "Every datacentre I know going up right now is spending 90% of their bullshit budget on battlig state and local governments" and you haven't demonstrated any expertise is building data centers. You've given a very extraordinary claim about DC costs, with no evidence presented, nor expertise cited to sway our priors. | | |
| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Your assertion was "Every datacentre I know going up right now is spending 90% of their bullshit budget on battlig state and local governments" and you haven't demonstrated any expertise is building data centers I confirmed "I’ve financed stuff in this field, from launch vehicles to satellites. And I own stakes in a decent chunk of the plays in this field." We're pseudonymous. But I've put more of my personal money to work around hyperscalers, by a mean multiplier of 10 ^ 9, over the troll who's a walking Gell-Mann syndrome. I'm engaging because I want to challenge my views. Reddit-style hot takes are not that. |
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| ▲ | o333 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Sounds very over-compensating that. Musk-type behaviour |
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| ▲ | floatrock 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I mean, you don't have zoning in space, but you have things like international agreements to avoid, you know, catastrophic human development situations like kessler syndrome. All satellites launched into orbit these days are required to have de-orbiting capabilities to "clean up" after EOL. I dunno, two years ago I would have said municipal zoning probably ain't as hard to ignore as international treaties, but who the hell knows these days. |
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| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | > you have things like international agreements to avoid, you know, catastrophic human development Yes. These are permitted in weeks for small groups, days for large ones. (In America.) Permitting is a legitimate variable that weighs in favor of in-space data centers. |
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| ▲ | BurningFrog 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It's also infinitly easier to get 24/7 unadulterated sunlight for your solar panels. |
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| ▲ | dantillberg 9 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Not 24/7 in low earth orbit, but perhaps at an earth-moon or earth-sun L4/L5 lagrange point. Though with higher latency to earth. | |
| ▲ | fodkodrasz 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | So what? Why is it important to have 24/7 solar, that you cannot have on the ground? On the ground level you have fossil fuels. I wonder if you were thinking about muh emissions for a chemical rocket launched piece of machinery containing many toxic metals to be burnt up in the air in 3-5 years... It doesn't sound more environmentally friendly. |
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| ▲ | viraptor 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > is spending 90% of their bullshit budget on battlig state and local governments Source? I can't immediately find anything like that. |
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| ▲ | kelseyfrog 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Parent just means "a lot" and is using 90% to convey their opinion. The actual numbers are closer to 0.083%[1][2][3][4] and parent thinks they should be 0.01-0.1% of the total build cost. 1. Assuming 500,000 USD in permitting costs. See 2. 2. Permits and approvals: Building permits, environmental assessments, and utility connection fees add extra expenses. In some jurisdictions, the approval process alone costs hundreds of thousands of dollars. https://www.truelook.com/blog/data-center-construction-costs 3. Assuming a 60MW facility at $10M/MW. See 4. 4. As a general rule, it costs between $600 to $1,100 per gross square foot or $7 million to $12 million per megawatt of commissioned IT load to build a data center. Therefore, if a 700,000-square foot, 60-megawatt data center were to be built in Northern Virginia, the world’s largest data center market, it would cost between $420 million and $770 million to construct the facility, including its powered shell and equipping the building with the appropriate electrical systems and HVAC components. https://dgtlinfra.com/how-much-does-it-cost-to-build-a-data-... | | |
| ▲ | viraptor 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Yeah, I was trying to be nicer than "you're making it up" just in case someone has the actual numbers. | |
| ▲ | mike_hearn 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | He said bullshit budget, not budget. He's thinking about opportunity and attention costs, not saying that permits literally have a higher price tag than GPUs. |
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| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Source? I can't immediately find anything like that I’ve financed two data centers. Most of my time was spent over permitting. If I tracked it minute by minute, it may be 70 to 95%. But broadly speaking, if I had to be told about it before it was solved, it was (a) a real nuisance and (b) not technical. | | |
| ▲ | KingMob 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | Unless you're the single largest cost, your personal time says nothing about actual DC costs, does it? Just admit it was hyperbole. |
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| ▲ | bdangubic 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| that may have been the case before but it is not anymore. I live in Northern VA, the capital of the data centers and it is easier to build one permit-wise than a tree house. also see provisions in OBBB |
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| ▲ | sapphicsnail 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| What counts towards a bullshit budget? Permitting is a drop in the bucket compared to construction costs. |
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| ▲ | deepGem 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| This is a huge one. What Musk is looking for is freedom from land acquisition. Everything else is an engineering and physics problem that he will somehow solve. The land acquisition problem is out of his hands and he doesn't want to deal with politicians. He learned from building out the Memphis DC. |
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| ▲ | EdwardDiego 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | So freedom from law and regulation? | | |
| ▲ | deepGem 11 hours ago | parent [-] | | Well let's face it. Not all law and regulation is created equal. Look at Europe. | | |
| ▲ | jeltz 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | So why does he not build here in Europe then? Getting a permit for building a data center in Sweden is just normal industrial zoning that anyone can get for cheap, there is plenty of it. Only challenge is getting enough electricity. | | |
| ▲ | deepGem 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | I meant Europe is an example of how not to do regulation. The problem you just mentioned. If you get land easily electricity won't be available and vice versa. | | |
| ▲ | jeltz 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Then maybe you should move here. We have in most cases well functioning regulations. Of course there are counter examples where it has been bad but data centers is not one of them. It is easy to get permits to build one. | |
| ▲ | aforwardslash 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Why is it an example? Can you cite any case where "regulation" trumpled the construction of a properly designed datacenter? Or what you meant was "those poor billionaires can't do as they please with common resources of us all, and without any accountability"? As a quick anecdote, there is a DC in construction in Portugal with a projected capacity of 1.2GW, powered by renewables. | | |
| ▲ | XorNot 33 minutes ago | parent [-] | | There's also a bunch of countries pretty much begging companies to come and build solar arrays. If you rocked up in Australia and said "I'm building a zero-emission data center we'll power from PV" we'd pretty much fall over ourselves to let you do it. Plus you know, we have just a bonkers amount of land. There is already a Tesla grid levelling battery in South Australia. If what you're really worried about is regulations making putting in the renewable energu expensive, then boy have I got a geopolitically stable, tectonically stable, first-world country where you can do it. |
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| ▲ | gf000 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Where a random malicious president can't just hijack the government and giga-companies can't trivially lobby lawmakers for profits at the expense of citizens? | |
| ▲ | throwaway290 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Not all law and regulation is created equal. Look at Europe. You're spot on but you are not saying what you think you're saying) |
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| ▲ | blactuary 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | He "learned" by illegally poisoning black people > an engineering and physics problem that he will somehow solve no he won't | | |
| ▲ | deepGem 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | What ? This is Hacker News man. Talk substance. Not some rage baiting nonsense. | | |
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| ▲ | markhahn 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Maybe, but I'm skeptical, because current DCs are not designed to minimize footprint. Has anyone even built a two-story DC? Obviously cooling is always an issue, but not, directly, land. Now that I think of it, a big hydro dam would be perfect: power and cooling in one place. | | |
| ▲ | mbushey 9 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > Has anyone even built a two-story DC? Downtown Los Angeles: The One Wilshire building, which is the worlds most connected building. There are over twenty floors of data centers. I used Corporate Colo which was a block or two away. That building had at least 10 floors of Data Centers. | | | |
| ▲ | lambdaone 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Multistory DCs are commonplace in major cities. | |
| ▲ | bigfatkitten 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Has anyone even built a two-story DC? Every DC I’ve been in (probably around 20 in total) has been multi storey. | |
| ▲ | deepGem 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Skepticism is valid. The environmentalists came after dams too. |
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