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Advancing AI Benchmarking with Game Arena(blog.google)
46 points by salkahfi 3 hours ago | 28 comments
ofirpress 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This is a good way to benchmark models. We [the SWE-bench team] took the meta-version of this and implemented it as a new benchmark called CodeClash -

We have agents implement agents that play games against each other- so Claude isn't playing against GPT, but an agent written by Claude plays poker against an agent written by GPT, and this really tough task leads to very interesting findings on AI for coding.

https://codeclash.ai/

63stack an hour ago | parent | next [-]

>this really tough task leads to very interesting findings on AI for coding

Are you going to share those with the class or?

Instantnoodl an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Cool to see core war! I feel it's mostly forgotten by now. My dad is still playing it to this day though and even attends tournaments

riku_iki 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Leaderboard looks very outdated..

ZeroCool2u 43 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'd really like to see them add a complex open world fully physicalized game like Star Citizen (assuming the game itself is stable) with a single primary goal like accumulating currency as a measure of general autonomy and a proxy for how the model might behave in the real world given access to a bipedal robot.

cv5005 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

My personal threshold for AGI is when an AI can 'sit down' - it doesn't need to have robotic hands, but it needs to only use visual and audio inputs to make its moves - and complete a modern RPG or FPS single player game that it hasn't pre-trained on (it can train on older games).

bob1029 an hour ago | parent [-]

https://arxiv.org/abs/2507.03793

10xDev 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If AI can program, why does it matter if it can play Chess using CoT when it can program a Chess Engine instead? This applies to other domains as well.

NitpickLawyer 13 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

> If AI can program, why does it matter if it can play Chess using CoT when it can program a Chess Engine instead?

Heh, we really did come full circle on this! When chatgpt launched in dec22 one of the first things that people noticed is that it sucked at math. Like basic math 12 + 35 would trip it up. Then people "discovered" tool use, and added a calculator. And everyone was like "well, that's cheating, of course it can use a calculator, but look it can't do the simple addition logic"... And now here we are :)

simianwords an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Its the same reason we are asked to write exams without using calculators but the real world does have them.

How you work without calculators is a proxy for real world competency.

10xDev an hour ago | parent [-]

Funny, you used probably the most useless form of benchmarking used on people as an example of measuring "competency" in the real world.

simianwords an hour ago | parent | next [-]

are you in favour of children using calculators in exams?

10xDev an hour ago | parent [-]

This isn't my child. It is a program. I need it to get task X done and I couldn't care less how it is done whether it is strictly through CoT or with tools. There is no such thing as cheating in real work and no reason to handicap it. Just test the limits of what it can do with whatever means possible.

Trying to solve everything with CoT alone seems futile.

simianwords 33 minutes ago | parent [-]

you are not understanding. its a proxy for how well it does other things.

doctorpangloss 36 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

A lot of the insights of math come from knowing how to do things efficiently. That’s why the tests are timed. I don’t know, this is pretty basic pedagogy that you are choosing to grief.

Davidzheng an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

They should be allowed to! In fact i think better benchmark would be to invent new games and test the models ability to allocate compute to minmax/alphazero new games in compute constraints

tiahura 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

How about nethack?

eamag 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Curious why they decided to curate poker hands instead of a normal poker

qsort 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Poker has very high variance, you'd need several hundred thousand hands to confidently say who's better. Also, you probably want to precompute the GTO-optimal play for benchmarking purposes.

johndhi 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

But can't computers play several hundred thousand poker hands easily in a couple of hours ?

eamag 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

But now because the hands are so strong we don't see any folds

PunchyHamster 18 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

making models target benchmark about being good at lying and getting away with it (werewolf) is certainly an interesting choice

bennyfreshness an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Wow. I'm generally in the AI maximalist camp. But adding Werewolf feels dangerous to me. Anyone who's played knows lying, deceipt, and manipulation is often key to winning. We really want models climbing this benchmark?

bilekas an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Good question, but who's going to stop them?

AI already has a very creative imagination for role play so this just adds extra to their arsenal.

PunchyHamster 17 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

confidently and charismatically lying to clueless users has been one of fundaments of AI adoption

chaostheory 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Anecdotal data point, but recently I’ve found Gemini to perform better than ChatGPT when it came to intent analysis.

simianwords an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Gemini tops all benchmarks but when it comes to real world usage it is genuinely unusable

goniszewski an hour ago | parent [-]

It’s not that bad. I’ve been using 3 Pro for some time now and I’m quite happy with how it works. Best paired with Opus and Codex, like most models, but it’s solid as a full-stack buddy.