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unglaublich 7 hours ago

My, that sums up apartment living quite well. I'm all for densifying popular urban areas, but man, add some fucking sound isolation cheap landlords.

ajb 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Right, so the problem here, apart from people not giving a shit, is that no-one has designed a 'spirit level for soundproofing' - a tool that can be used during the job by the builder and by the supervisor to check on it. What you have is equipment that can be used after "second fix", at which point no-one wants to rip the plaster off to fix anything, so it becomes a box ticking exercise.

There are two kinds of issue: a solid transmission path that shouldn't exist ('bridge'), and a gap or void that shouldn't exist. What we need is something like a time domain reflectometer but for sound conduction, so you can detect gaps and bridges after screwing on the drywall but before skimming over it, and before the doors have been put in - ie, while there's still a massive audio path a few meters away. Ideally, even if the next panel hasn't been screwed on. If you had that, then if it detects something then all you have to do is unscrew a panel to fix it, which is something that people might actually do.

Anyone who has enough audio engineering skills, feel free to build this!

FiatLuxDave 38 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

This is a really good idea. Somebody build this!

lostdog 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

And get it into a modern certification. Want LEEDS? Get the sound measurement people out.

pwg 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The landlord is often not the same as the developer or construction company, and sound isolation works best when built in while the building is being constructed. Attempting to retrofit later is often less than satisfactory. So it is often not the landlord's fault, it was the developer or construction company that cut corners and used the thinnest, least sound isolating materials they could to keep their costs down.

2ICofafireteam 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Something I've seen with renovations is construction companies not understanding how to attenuate sound, and not bothering to learn or, even better, consult someone who knows.

Well meaning PMs read up on products and throw them at the problem and it's treated as a great success because there are no hard targets, just a general desire to reduce noise, and that happened.

phantom784 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Noise from neighbors is the biggest thing that drove me to move to a single-family home.

evgpbfhnr 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Ironically it was quiet enough in our previous apartment, but moving to a house we now have the neighbor using their awfully loud snow-spitting machine before 6AM after snowy nights... (And it snows a lot)

sejje 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Last city I lived in had an ordinance preventing this before 8am.

A company I worked for had to abide by it, we'd be on-site at the customer address and start work promptly at 8.

ben-schaaf 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Noise is one of the things that improved moving to an apartment for me. We've got bylaws about noise with quiet periods, bans on bothersome noise, a smoking ban and a (loud) pet ban. We also have better windows that block noise, and decent noise insulation in the floors despite the hard flooring.

Compared to suburbia where neighbours started mowing at 7am, loud parties went late into the night and dogs barked all day, it's oddly quiet.

arjie 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

A lot of apartment construction must be either poorly converted or poorly constructed. I've lived in multi-unit buildings in a few places and sound isolation is pretty good. In London, I met a family at the lift and the mother apologized for how loud her children had been that weekend. My bedroom was against their living room. I honestly hadn't heard a peep.

Then here in San Francisco my particular unit is next to the garbage chute and I haven't ever heard someone putting their garbage down it. My wife and I run the 3D printer through the night and our neighbor hasn't said anything yet. It's about 57 dB from 1 m away so that's why I suppose. We do rarely hear their kids when they wail, as kids do, but not otherwise.

One of the things I do when we consider a place to live in, though, is that I play music at max volume on my wife's phone and then check from various parts of the home. I also talk to yell till my wife notices on the other side of bedroom doors and so on. To be honest, many places can be built to be quite quiet. My daughter sleeps above the work / office and it's about 29 dB right now with the printer running.

Naturally if one cannot sleep at 29 dB our home wouldn't work or you'd have to turn off the printer overnight, but overall it seems fine for me.

2ICofafireteam 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Where I am in British Columbia, there are sound isolation requirements in the building code so the landlords can't be cheap...but it doesn't help with older or non-permitted work.

brigade 6 hours ago | parent [-]

A quick google suggests that British Columbia's building code only requires STC 50 which is "you can hear but not understand a neighbor's loud conversation" levels of isolation. Though maybe your city has stricter requirements?

STC 50 is a common requirement in the US too.

2ICofafireteam 10 minutes ago | parent [-]

Only 50? I think that's pretty good when considered on its own but STC doesn't look at the whole picture. STC ratings and requirements for discrete wall and floor assemblies are a thing but with suites/party walls apparent STC is what mattered whether it was the provincial code or local bylaws. ASTC is king.

udkl 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I don't know why we don't build with concrete like the rest of the world ... that should give us a higher noise isolation than wood

toast0 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Majority construction anywhere is whatever can be built with the least cost.

In the US and Canada timber framing for buildings under about 6 feet is least cost. Other places without a lot of timber availability tend to build with other things.

mayoff 6 hours ago | parent [-]

I'm pretty sure you meant something other than "buildings under about 6 feet".

rationalist 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I think they meant what they wrote, they just forgot some punctuation.

'timber framing (for buildings) under about 6 feet'

quickthrowman 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I assume they meant “five-over-one”, five floors of stick built (framed with dimensional lumber, not timber) apartments on top of a concrete and steel first floor.

Timber framing is something else entirely, you can construct buildings taller than six stories with engineered wood products.

> The mid-rise buildings are normally constructed with four or five wood-frame stories above a concrete podium, usually for retail or resident amenity space.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-over-1

pwg 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Concrete is more expensive to build with than wood, and many "apartment buildings" are built with a target towards "minimum possible build cost".

tpm 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

A bit higher possibly, but from firsthand experience let me tell you it's not enough by far. Effective noise isolation does not magically arise from used materials, it has to be planned and included in the building project. And it makes the building more expensive.