I still don’t understand the Xcode rant. Using Swift can be done in any LSP-compatible text editor (VSCode, which even has a first-party extension for Swift, but also zed, Sublime Text, etc.)

Unless you’re doing Apple-specific development, you don’t need Xcode.

▲ truncate 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

LSP support isn't great. It keeps improving however. Used to get quite a few crashes. And I think background indexing still doesn't work.

▲ wolvoleo 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Why would you bother using Swift if you're not targeting Apple? I can imagine wanting to use it for something cross-platform that is primarily an ios/macos thing.

But if you don't want to include those I wouldn't pick a language that's under control of a company I don't use.

It's a bit like using c# or powershell on Linux. Yes it can be done and it's helpful for cross platform with windows but I wouldn't consider it a first class citizen.

▲ latexr 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Why would you bother using Swift if you're not targeting Apple?

For the reasons stated in the article.

▲ behnamoh 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> I wouldn't pick a language that's under control of a company

Hmm...

TypeScript: Microsoft

Rust: Mozilla

Go: Google

Java: Oracle

By your logic we should be programming in Common Lisp.

==========

Edit:

    - Rust: Mozilla
    + Rust: Rust Foundation

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shawn_w 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

>... under control of a company I don't use.

You left out an important part of the GP's comment.

>By your logic we should be programming in Common Lisp.

I wish. (Scheme is acceptable too)

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tialaramex 6 hours ago | parent [-]

I was talking about this at a party this afternoon (yes, I do go to the most interesting parties, thanks) and while Scheme is acceptable the Common Lisp is not because it's not OK to go without boolean primitives. Types are a good idea, if you have types the simplest is clearly the boolean, so start there.

I believe firmly that there should be a single true value, which we might reasonably name true, and a single false value, false, other values aren't booleans, so it's no more reasonable to ask whether an empty string is false, than to just forget to close the quote marks on a string. What we wrote isn't a correct program.

	▲	shawn_w 6 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		Scheme has a single false value (#f) but everything else is considered true...
	▲	behnamoh 6 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		Any Lisp w/o image support is no true Lisp in my book. That leaves us with only Common Lisp and Janet. The others (Scheme, Clojure, etc.) are just Lispy syntax but lack the true "soul" of Lisp-style development.

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scns 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Rust: Mozilla

Nope. Not anymore, several years maybe?

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stackghost 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Common Lisp is actually a great language. The SBCL implementation has a good compiler that produce reasonably fast code, and it's under active development.

The only real drawback to common lisp is the fact that the library ecosystem is practically non-existent.

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WD-42 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

You forgot the most popular language in the world right now:

Python: The Python Software Foundation

Turns out two of the best languages don't need corporate overlords to steer their development.

	▲	geysersam 4 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		Not to mention C, C++, JS, PHP, bash. Hell there are so many great languages not controlled by big companies.
	▲	tayo42 4 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		Could that happen today though? I think python started in a very different world then today. Alot of its current popularity is becasue big companies developed the libraries that make up the foundation of Ai with it.

▲ hn-acct 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Agreed. People use any thread mentioning swift to dunk on Apple for X number of reasons with vague details and regurgitated dogma. I get Xcode has quirks I use it everyday believe me I know but it's not that bad that it's unusable.

	▲	belmont_sup 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		I recently really wanted to use Swift server side because of all the updates to Vapor. Ran vapor new. Tried to build the project. Laptop spun for minutes and got really hot. Then I gave up and just went back to the usual.

▲ teaearlgraycold 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

What company is using Swift outside of Apple-specific development?

	▲	alwillis 6 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		Arc, TBCNY's browser for macOS and Windows uses Swift [1] [2]. Their newer Dia browser which is meant to be cross-platform also uses Swift. [1]: https://speakinginswift.substack.com/p/swift-tooling-windows... [2]: "How we're building the Arc Browser Windows app with Swift" -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xa_fNuaSE_I
	▲	odo1242 7 hours ago \| parent \| prev \| next [-]
		Doesn’t affect the validity of your comment whatsoever, but there was the attempt by the Browser Company to implement Arc on Windows in SwiftUI lol
	▲	frizlab 7 hours ago \| parent \| prev \| next [-]
		Not a lot, but has absolutely no relation whatsoever to my comment.
	▲	Imustaskforhelp 6 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		> What company is using Swift outside of Apple-specific development? Skip allows to "Build truly native iPhone and Android apps with Skip" so technically skip runs swift on android which is outside of Apple-specific development. They also recently got open source from their closed source model prior from what I can tell https://skip.dev/