| ▲ | iLoveOncall 2 hours ago |
| Europe will never have competitive offerings until they pay their employees the equivalent of what FAANGs pay. If you work for GCP or AWS in Europe, you'll easily get twice as much income as if you do the exact same job for Hetzner or OVH. You can't build equivalents to GCP and AWS without paying the same. I work for a FAANG right now in Europe and I wouldn't consider even a single second any European cloud provider as potential employers. |
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| ▲ | embedding-shape 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| > Europe will never have competitive offerings until they pay their employees the equivalent of what FAANGs pay. Stop focusing on the absolute number of "$/year", and things will make more sense. Seemingly you'll be able to live a more lavish life in Spain given 1/4 of the salary compared to FAANG, yet your life is better and you can afford more. Higher salaries aren't always better, especially when you're almost willfully ignoring more important things like purchasing power and quality of life. |
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| ▲ | mgh95 an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | > Higher salaries aren't always better, especially when you're almost willfully ignoring more important things like purchasing power and quality of life. Senior SWE salaries I'm finding in a quick google search in Spain are 80k eur. According to levels.fyi [1] Google (and presumably the other clouds) are paying 170k eur. The comparison isn't even "is 4x the salary better in the US?" it's "is 2x the salary better in the same place?" which is obviously yes. [1] https://www.levels.fyi/companies/google/salaries/software-en... | | |
| ▲ | Juliate a minute ago | parent | next [-] | | But you still won't get with 170k in the Bay Area, what you get in Paris, Madrid, Nantes or Barcelona with 80k. In France, if you get 80k net, you do actually get ~160k, half of which is collected/distributed before by your employer to various mutualised funds (health, retirement, unemployment, state taxes, employee benefits, etc.). And the mechanism is somewhat similar in other EU countries. | |
| ▲ | embedding-shape an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Again, by focusing solely on the salary you're missing the bigger picture. I know y'all are conditioned to just focusing on the salary, but there is so much more to life. | | |
| ▲ | mgh95 an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | I don't think I am. Spanish employees of Google benefit just as much from Spanish employment law as Jose's Web Dev Shop. It's the purest comparison considering it's within the exact same country. | |
| ▲ | inglor_cz an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | While this sounds like great philosophical advice, in practice big salaries do attract employees regardless. If you want to solve the "brain drain to American companies" problem, ignoring the fact that they pay better isn't likely to help. |
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| ▲ | iLoveOncall an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | I'm not comparing European salaries with American ones, I'm comparing salaries paid by American cloud providers IN EUROPE with salaries paid by European cloud providers. |
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| ▲ | lnsru 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I upvoted you. That’s absolutely true for other roles as well. Like hardware design engineers. At US company in Germany one gets real salary. At German big company one will make 2/3 of that salary. People are not stupid, why choose fraction of the salary when one can take it all. There are outliers, but majority will want to work for more than less money. |
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| ▲ | p1anecrazy an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Be the change you wish to see. If professionals like you join European companies it will help grow their business and offer competitive salaries. |
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| ▲ | raincole an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | ~30% salary cut isn't a change many people wish to see. | | |
| ▲ | deaux an hour ago | parent [-] | | There's a reason gambling companies end up paying more than market rates for the same roles, and it's not out of generosity. |
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| ▲ | iLoveOncall an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | That's absolutely not how any of this works. If they can get top talent for half the salary they won't suddenly start paying more. There is only one solution: EU governments heavily subsidize those European cloud providers which enables them to offer top salaries and therefore attract top talent. | | |
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| ▲ | deaux an hour ago | parent | prev [-] |
| There's always money to be made from being a traitor. Maybe next time Yandex Cloud or Aramco Cloud offers you 50% more and off you go. And yes, I've walked the talk, so I can say this. |
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