| ▲ | Fh_ 4 hours ago |
| These projects are extremely expensive and the findings can alter humanity itself. That's why private donors sounds a bit sketchy |
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| ▲ | sampo 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| > findings can alter humanity itself Higgs boson was predicted in theory in 1964, and found in LHC in CERN in 2012-2013. With this, all elementary particles in the standard model of particle physics have been found. From the 1970s to 2010s, physicists believed in a theory called supersymmetry, which predicted supersymmetric partner particles for the known elementary particles. But these should have been already found in the energies used in LHC. For the first time, there is no mainstream theory that would predict any new findings. Maybe the next bigger particle collider will find no new particles at all? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlixMNBlQos |
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| ▲ | sandworm101 an hour ago | parent [-] | | A collider produces far more than new particles or explanations. They produce papers and phds. In effect, thier primary goal is to produce stem careers. The new particles are just the public announcements. The collider doesnt even need to be functional. Much/most of the work occures before first light, before anyone turns it on. The design of the ring and its innumerable detectors and subsystems takes decades. So a great many people want the next collider to be funded regardless of its potential for scientific discovery. The same discussion can happen re the ISS. Its primary purpose was not science. It existed to give shuttle a parking spot, to keep the US manned space program ticking along and to keep a thousand russian rocket people from going to work for rando countries. The ISS will soon end. Are we going to put up a new one? A place to park starliner and dragon? Or are we going to shut down low earth orbit spaceflight? The decision will not turn on the potential for new science, rather it will be about supporting and maintaining a flagship industry. | | |
| ▲ | SecretDreams an hour ago | parent [-] | | > thousand russian rocket people from going to work for bad people. Just like for the Germans before! I agree with you that it is an educational tool, but if that's all it is, there are cheaper ways to educate that might also have a higher likelihood for scientific discoveries. To build a new collider, we should have some things we're trying to do/find. |
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| ▲ | murkt 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| How can they alter humanity? What's the difference for humanity since CERN found Higgs particle? In what ways could the potential dark matter particle detection alter humanity? |
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| ▲ | niemandhier 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It’s a place where extremely skilled people work highly motivated on humanities hardest problems at scale. CERN pushed distributed computing and storage before anyone else hat problems on that scale. CERN pushed edge computing for massive data analysis before anyone else even generated data at that rate. CERN is currently pushing the physical boundaries of device synchronisation ( Check „ White Rabbit“ ), same for data transmission.
CERNS accelerator cooling tech paves the way for industrial super cooling, magnet coils push super conduction… Companies are always late in the game, they come once there is money to be had:
No one founded a fusion startup until we were close enough to the relevant tripple product. | | |
| ▲ | vjvjvjvjghv 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Seems these are all positive things and it’s good that private donors are adding some money. | |
| ▲ | sylware 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | You are perfectly right, this has been similar to the "space industry" (which includes 'ballistic nukes' knowhow maintainance). The thing with a bigger collider is it seems there are, not that honnest, scientists retro-fitting models in order to reach 'appropriate for this new collider' energy ranges where 'new physics' could be found. | | |
| ▲ | XorNot 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | What does that even mean? The FCC is essentially the next plausible energy range we can probe with a collider. Going larger would cost more, and add risk. So like, yes? The obvious thing to do is to analyze our models and come up with experiments to do within energy ranges which are plausibly accessible with near future technology. | | |
| ▲ | sylware 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | This is where there is a questionable issue: some network of dishonest scientists may have retro-fitted the models in order to get realitic energy ranges for this new collider. | | |
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| ▲ | zeristor 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I misread the first bit as the hardest problem in the Humanities. I’m not sure I have any idea what the hardest problem in the humanities is. |
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| ▲ | mr_mitm 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | In what way would studying black body radiation alter humanity? Oh just the basis for quantum mechanics and thus transistors, lasers, MRIs, photovoltaics, and more. The point is, you don't know in advance. I admit it's a bit more far fetched with these experiments that are so far removed from everyday life, but they're still worthwhile. | |
| ▲ | pjmlp 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Cancer treatment goes back to particle physics research at CERN, the Web was born there, cloud was previously known as Grid Computing at CERN, Three examples of how humanity would not be as we know it today without CERN. As Alumni, there are many other changes that trace back to CERN. We don't sit only on the H1 beer garden and go skiing. | | |
| ▲ | mikkupikku 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I understand how linacs and even small compact syncrotrons can have practical medical and industrial applications, and I understand that in the past CERN has developed technology and produced research which is relevant to hardon therapy. What I don't understand, and maybe you can clarify, is how the very largest gargantuan accelerators can ever have practical relevance. How can effects and products which can only be studied with accelerators that are many miles large ever have application in hospitals unless those hospitals are also many miles large? Not going to lie, I get "NASA invented Tang" vibes whenever this subject comes up; like the medical applications of small accelerators are obvious and parsable to the public, so they are used to sell the public on accelerators the size of small countries. | | |
| ▲ | pjmlp 30 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Because of the engineering effort required to build such systems, that no one has built before, means there is a gigantic amount of R&D discoveries that can be eventually applied in other fields outside particle physics. Mechanical, electronic, informatics, chemistry, physics,... Hence why CERN eventually created an industry collaboration office, responsible for finding business partners that would like to make a business out of such discoveries. https://knowledgetransfer.web.cern.ch/activities-services/co... |
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| ▲ | bonsai_spool an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Cancer treatment goes back to particle physics Are you speaking about proton therapy? I don’t think there’s any evidence that works better than alternatives | | |
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| ▲ | hnthrow0287345 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Less that and more "we built a really complex machine and we can apply those skills elsewhere". | |
| ▲ | 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
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| ▲ | T-A an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > can alter humanity or at least keep some of it warm: https://home.cern/news/news/cern/heating-homes-worlds-larges... |
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| ▲ | waihtis 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| So complain to your government about their spending. Probably at least 30% of government spend is used on completely worthless or fraudulent things. It's good that someone is funding this stuff. |
