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ryanSrich 10 hours ago

I think there are two things that happened

1. OpenAI bet largely on consumer. Consumers have mostly rejected AI. And in a lot of cases even hate it (can't go on TikTok or Reddit without people calling something slop, or hating on AI generated content). Anthropic on the other hand went all in on B2B and coding. That seems to be the much better market to be in.

2. Sam Altman is profoundly unlikable.

nl 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Consumers have mostly rejected AI.

People like to complain about things, but consumers are heavily using AI.

ChatGPT.com is now up to the 4th most visited website in the world: https://explodingtopics.com/blog/chatgpt-users

drawfloat 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

We’ve seen many times that platforms can be popular and widely disliked at the same time. Facebook is a clear example.

The difference there is it became hated after it was established and financially successful. If you need to turn free visitors in to paying customers, that general mood of “AI is bad and going to make me lose my job/fuck up society” is yet another hurdle OpenAI will have to overcome.

ryanSrich 25 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Are they paying through? Reddit was also popular for a long time and didn't make much money.

My point was more that it seems this wave of AI is more profitable if you're in B2B vs. B2C.

cschep 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

#2 cannot be understated

edoceo 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Was the golden boy for a while? What shifted? I don't even remember what he did "first" to get the status. Is it maybe just a case of familiarity breeding contempt?

icepush 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It is starting to become clear to more and more people that Sam is a dyed in the wool True Believer in AGI. While it's obvious in hindsight that OpenAI would never have gotten anywhere if he wasn't, seeing it so starkly is really rubbing a lot of people the wrong way.

steveBK123 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Advertising Generated Income?

Bayko 7 hours ago | parent [-]

Damm this is smart. I like it

steveBK123 7 hours ago | parent [-]

Someone else said it first here

justcool393 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

it's even worse than that and i hope people recognize that it's not that he's a True Believer (though the TBs are often hilarious)

it's that he has no ethics to speak of at all. it's not that he's out of touch, it's that he simply does not care.

PunchyHamster 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Well, he made mistake many billionaires do, he opened his mouth with his own thoughts, instead of just reading what PR department told him to read

pinnochio 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

All the manipulation and lying that got him fired.

chihuahua 8 hours ago | parent [-]

He is a pretty interesting case. According to the book "Empire of AI" about OpenAI, he lies constantly, even about things that are too trivial to matter. So it may be part of some compulsive behavior.

And when two people want different things from him, he "resolves" the conflict by agreeing with each of them separately, and then each assumes they got what they wanted, until they talk to the other person and find out that nothing was resolved.

Really not a person who is qualified to run a company, except the constant lying is good for fundraising and PR.

kreelman 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

He was once a big pin in Y Combinator (I think kind of ran it?)... Paul Graham thought he was great for YC.

Interesting that he's got as far as he has with this issue. I don't think you can run a company effectively if you don't deal in truth.

Some of his videos have seemed quite bizarre as well, quite sarcastic about concerns people have about AI in general.

owebmaster 3 hours ago | parent [-]

> He was once a big pin in Y Combinator (I think kind of ran it?)... Paul Graham thought he was great for YC.

And today it seems everyone will at YC hate him but pretend not

dandelionv1bes 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Saw Empire of AI in a bookshop recently but held off buying as wasn’t sure if it was going to be surface level. You’d recommend?

nixass 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Really not a person who is qualified to run a company, except the constant lying is good for fundraising and PR.

For a brief moment I thought you were talking about Elon there

drtgh 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Not a case, society call them sociopaths. Witch includes power struggle, manipulation and physiological abuse of the people around them.

Example, Sam Altman and OpenAI hoarding 40% of the RAM supply as unprocessed wafers stored in warehouses bought with magical bubble investors money in GPUs that don't exist yet and that they will not be able to install because there's not enough electricity to feed such botched tech, in data centers that are still to be built, with intention to punch the competence supply, and all the people of the planet in the process along two years (at least).

irishcoffee 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

He is a sociopath. It's ok to say it.

ifwinterco 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Yep the various -path adjectives get overused but in this case he's the real deal, something is really really off about him.

You can see it when he talks, he's clearly trying (very unconvincingly) to emulate normal human emotions like concern and empathy. He doesn't feel them.

People like that are capable of great evil and there's a part of our lizard brains that can sense it

peyton 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Sounds like when people are politicking he just takes a “whatever” approach haha. That seems reasonable.

pinnochio 7 hours ago | parent [-]

No, that's not what he's doing.

onetokeoverthe 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

notyourwork 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Cringey to watch their interviews.

glalonde 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

*Overstated

3kkdd 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Indeed. Sama seems to be incredibly delusional. OAI going bust is going to really damage his well-being, irrespective of his financial wealth. Brother really thought he was going to take over the world at one point.

ambicapter 8 hours ago | parent [-]

Scariest part is it probably won't, and he'll be back in five year with something else.

PunchyHamster 4 hours ago | parent [-]

People lying to everyone lie to themselves the most

raw_anon_1111 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Instead of anecdotes about “what you saw on TikTok and Reddit”, it’s really not that hard to lookup how many paid users ChatGPT has.

Besides OpenAI was never going to recoup the billions of dollars based on advertising or $20/month subscriptions

okhobb 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Is CEO likeability a reliable predictor?

catdog 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I think it depends how visible the CEO is to (potential) customers, in this case very visible, he is in the media all the time.

redanddead 3 hours ago | parent [-]

They pay to be in the media

pizlonator 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

good point.

I don't think it is at all

The CEO just has to have followership: the people who work there have to think that this is a good person to follow. Even they don't have to "like" him

LunaSea 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Ask Tesla about the impact of their CEOs likeability on their sales.

10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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jackblemming 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You have to give credit to Sam, he’s charismatic enough to the right people to climb man made corporate structures. He was also smart enough to be at the right place at the right time to enrich himself (Silicon Valley). He seems to be pretty good at cutting deals. Unfortunately all of the above seems to be at odds with having any sort of moral core.

3kkdd 9 hours ago | parent [-]

Ermmm what?

He and his personality caused people like Ilya to leave. At that point the failure risk of OAI jumped tremendously. The reality he will have to face is, he has caused OAIs demise.

Perhaps hes ok with that as long as OAI goes down with him. Would expect nothing less from him.

9dev 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

All this drama is mostly irrelevant outside a very narrow and very online community.

The demise of OpenAI is rooted in the bad product market fit, since many people like using ChatGPT for free, but fewer are ready to pay for it. And that’s pretty much all there is to it. OpenAI bet on consumers, made a slopstagram that unsurprisingly didn’t revolutionise content, and doesn’t sell as many licenses as they would like.

randomNumber7 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Imo they'll soon make a lot of money with advertisement. Whenever chatgpt brings you to some website to buy a product they will get some share.

CamperBob2 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Ilya took a swing at the king and missed. It would have been awkward to hang around after that debacle.

9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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moomoo11 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

moomoo11 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I actually think Sam is “better” than say Elon or Dario because he seems like a typical SF/SV tech bro. You probably know the type (not talking about some 600k TC fang worker, I mean entrepreneurs).

He says a lot of fluff, doesn’t try to be very extreme, and focuses on selling. I don’t know him personally but he comes across like an average person if that makes sense (in this environment that is).

I think I personally prefer that over Elon’s self induced mental illnesses and Dario being a doomer promoting the “end” of (insert a profession here) in 12 months every 6 months. It’s hard for me to trust a megalomaniac or a total nerd. So Sam is kinda in the middle there.

I hope OpenAI continues to dominate even if the margins of winning tighten.

ryanSrich 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Elon is one of the most unlikable people on the planet, so I wouldn't consider him much of a bar.

jacquesm 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Hah, you beat me to it, serves me right for writing longer comments. Have an upvote ;)

moomoo11 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It’s kind of sad. I can’t believe I used to like him back in the iron man days. Back then I thought he was cool for the various ideas and projects he was working on. I still think many of those are great but he as a person let me down.

Now I have him muted on X.

jordanb 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Back then he had a PR firm working for him, getting him cameos and good press. But in 2020 he fired them deciding that his own "radically awesome" personality doesn't need any filtering.

Personally I don't think Elon is the worst billionaire, he's just the one dumb enough to not have any PR (since 2020). They're all pretty reprehensible creatures.

majormajor 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Any number of past mega-rich were probably equally nuts and out of touch and reprehensible but they just didn't let people find out. Then Twitter enabled an unfiltered mass-media broadcast of anyone's personal insanity, and certain public figures got addicted and exposed.

There will always be enough people willing to suck up to money that they'll have all the yes-men they need to rationalize it as "it's EVERYONE ELSE who's wrong!"

k3nt0456 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The watershed moment for me was when he pretended to be a top tier gamer on Path of Exile. Anyone in the know saw right through it, and honestly makes me wonder if we just spotted this behavior because it's "our turf", but actually he and people like him just operate this way in absolutely everything they do

leptons 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Yeah, Putin is probably the worst billionaire. Elon might be a close second though, or maybe it's a US politician if they actually are a billionaire.

graemep 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Peter Thiel who thinks the Pope or Greta Thunberg might be the antichrist, and that freedom is incompatible with democracy

https://www.nationalmemo.com/peter-thiel-antichrist

randomNumber7 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I think you did not understand his argument. He said it is a great danger that people might unite behind an antichrist like figure.

catdog 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Exactly, other billionaires having calmer personality types does not make them less nuts.

miroljub 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Now I have him muted on X.

Props to him for letting people mute him on his own platform. The issue with Sam and OpenAI is they their bias on any controversional topic can't be switched off.

mattmanser 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

But you're still on Twitter and calling it X...

krupan 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Not extreme? Have you seen his interviews? I guess his wording and delivery are not extreme, but if you really listen to what he's saying, it's kinda nuts.

pinnochio 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

That Dyson sphere interview should've been a wake up call for the OpenAI faithful.

sebmellen 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I understand what GP is saying in the sense that, yes, on an objective scale, what Sam is saying is absolutely and completely nuts... but on a relative scale he's just hyping his startup. Relative to the scale he's at, it’s no worse than the average support tool startup founder claiming they will defeat Salesforce, for example.

moomoo11 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Exactly. Thanks for getting it, it is refreshing to encounter people who get it. Good luck with everything!

windexh8er 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

He's definitely not. If Altman. Is a "typical" SF/SV tech bro then that's an indication the valley has turned full d-bag. Altman's past is gross. So, if he's the norm then I will vehemently avoid any dollars of mine going to OAI. I paid for an account for a while, but just like Musk I lose nothing over actively avoiding his Ponzi scheme of a company.

pinnochio 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Altman is a consummate liar and manipulator with no moral scruples. I think this LLM business is ethically compromised from the start, but Dario is easily the least worst of the three.

techblueberry 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Darío unsettles me the most, he kinda reminds me of SBF, I wouldn’t be surprised if, well they’re all bad its to stack rank them.

pinnochio 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I don't think he's good, but afaik he isn't trying to make everyone psychologically dependent on Claude and releasing sex bots.

strange_quark 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

He and SBF are both big into effective altruism, and SBF gave Anthropic their seed funding, so yeah, that checks out.

cinntaile 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Your argument is guilt by association. Association with something that isn't morally wrong, it's just a way to try to spend money on charity in an effective way? You can take a lot of ideas too far and end up with a bad result of course.

esafak 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

There's nothing wrong with effective altruism -- making money to give it away -- it's SBF.

shwaj 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There’s 4 though, where does Demis fit in the stack rank?

pinnochio 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

TBH, I hadn't heard of him until now. Looks like he's had a crazy legit professional career. I'd put him at the top for his work at Bullfrog alone.

baq 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Demis is the reason Google is afloat with a good shot at winning the whole race. The issue currently is he isn’t willing to become the alphabet CEO. IMHO he’ll need to for the final legs.

falkensmaize 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Pfft. Dario has been making nonsense fear mongering that never comes true.

jacquesm 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> I actually think Sam is “better” than say Elon or even Dario because he seems like a typical SF/SV tech bro.

If you nail the bar to the floor, then sure, you can pass over it.

> He says a lot of fluff, doesn’t try to be very extreme, and focuses on selling.

I don't now what your definition of extreme is but by mine he's pretty extreme.

> I think I personally prefer that over Elon’s self induced mental illnesses and Dario being a doomer promoting the “end” of (insert a profession here) in 12 months every 6 months.

All of them suffer from thinking their money makes them somehow better.

> I hope OpenAI continues to dominate even if the margins of winning tighten.

I couldn't care less. I'm on the whole impressed with AI, less than happy about all of the slop and the societal problems it brings and wished it had been a more robust world that this had been brought in to because I'm not convinced the current one needed another issue of that magnitude to deal with.

csallen 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> All of them suffer from thinking their money makes them somehow better.

Let's assume they think they're better than others.

What makes you think that they think it's because of their money, as opposed to, say, because of their success at growing their products and businesses to the top of their field?

moomoo11 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

That’s ok, but AI is useful in particular use cases for many people. I use it a lot and I prefer the Codex 5.2 extra high reasoning model. The AI slop and dumb shit on IG/YT is like the LCD of humans though. They’ve always been there and always will be there to be annoying af. Before AI slop we had brain rot made by humans.

I think over time it (LLM based) will become like an augmenter, not something like what they’re selling as some doomsday thing. It can help people be more efficient at their jobs by quickly learning something new or helping do some tasks.

I find it makes me a lot more productive because I can have it follow my architecture and other docs to pump out changes across 10 files that I can then review. In the old way, it would have taken me quite a while longer to just draft those 10 files (I work on a fairly complex system), and I had some crazy code gen scripts and shit I’d built over the years. So I’d say it gives me about 50% more efficiency which I think is good.

Of course, everyone’s mileage may vary. Kinda reminds me of when everyone was shitting on GUIs, or scripting languages or opinionated frameworks. Except over time those things made productivity increase and led to a lot more solutions. We can nitpick but I think the broader positive implication remains.

binary132 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

some people are so determined to be positive about AI that at some point it just comes across like they’re getting paid to be

catdog 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Maybe some/many even are? For "AI" companies it's not really a big expense in comparison and they depend hugely on keeping the hype going.

tonyedgecombe 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

There are quite a lot of posts like that. Just a bit too eager. Proselytising as if AI is a religion.

moomoo11 5 hours ago | parent [-]

I don't think I did that at all, and I call out that sort of bullshit all the time and get downvoted lol (idgaf :P)

jacquesm 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It's very hard to see downsides on something like GUIS, scripting languages or opinionated frameworks compared to a broad, easily weaponized tool like generative AI.