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| ▲ | slater 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I think we're just, once again, speed-running the "which opinions, mfer" goose meme. | | |
| ▲ | elsonrodriguez 11 hours ago | parent [-] | | I wanted to play devil's advocate here, but unfortunately did find an example of a "politically disapproved position" in frumple's post history: "The deportations will continue regardless of the tantrums of the hysterical and mentally ill." Which ironically is similar to some "1939 Germany" views. | | |
| ▲ | frumplestlatz 9 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Are you claiming that enforcing existing 2026 U.S. immigration law -- developed through decades of bipartisan agreement and consistent with policies in other liberal democracies -- is in any way comparable to 1939 Germany and their systematic murder of millions? That comparison is precisely the problem: it distorts history, inflates moral claims, and shuts down serious discussion. This is also largely the standard level of rhetoric on Bluesky, which is fine -- but manufactured consensus on a heavily moderated platform is not the same thing as factual or moral authority. | | |
| ▲ | elsonrodriguez 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | Even if the current state of immigration policy was forged in a bipartisan agreement(it wasn't), it would be inhumane and I would condemn it. Fortunately the Republicans, specifically Tom Homan and Stephen Miller, can be shown to have a record of dehumanizing people to the point of cruelty. As far as anyone could tell they were behind the effort to separate children from their families, and the decision to intentionally destroy records, and prevent the recording of data, which ultimately left over a thousand children orphaned to this very day. I know someone in CBP who volunteered to try help sort that situation out, ready to get on a plane, paying out of pocket, and they were told to stand down by leadership. The republican-led executive branch wanted to inflict pain despite the law, and despite "policy". And now those same people (Homan and Miller) are behind the door-to-door raids, asking people for their papers, building detention centers(even though we're supposed to be sending them back home...), and targeting political enemies. Obama managed to deport 3 million people without this excess use of cruelty, civil rights violations, manpower, or money. This is something else. This level of hatred towards the other is the type of seed that may or may not grow into a holocaust. It's understandable if some people want to kill it before it sprouts by drawing obvious parallels. | | |
| ▲ | nate_meurer 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I don't think the Obama comparison is very useful. Trump faces a vastly more difficult problem than Obama did. For most of his presidency, Obama simply continued the Operation Streamline era policies that he inherited from Bush. He didn't have to clean up after a previous administration that had completely lost control of the border, allowing somewhere between ten and forty million immigrants through. And Obama didn't have to contend with dozens of states and cities declaring themselves sanctuaries, completely off limits to meaningful immigration enforcement, even of criminal migrants. My own state promptly made it illegal for local law enforcement to cooperate with border patrol or immigration enforcement agents in any circumstance. So now, if we want our country to have meaningful borders, immigration enforcement has to be done the hard way, and it shouldn't be surprising that Kristi Noem's clown show is showing signs of clusterfuckery. It's actually surprising that things have gone as well as they have. | |
| ▲ | frumplestlatz 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | This is a category error. Immigration enforcement -- even when abusive or unlawful, which is not a concession I make -- is not genocide. Invoking 1939 Germany collapses distinctions that matter. Holocaust analogies based on unsupported anecdote and asserted intent aren’t analysis; they’re unfalsifiable rhetorical escalations designed to end debate. If every disliked policy is treated as a "seed" of genocide, as is now common, the term loses meaning and becomes an empty rhetorical weapon. Argue specific actions with evidence and standards, or don’t -- but stop inflating unfalsifiable moral claims to the point where serious critique is impossible. > Even if the current state of immigration policy was forged in a bipartisan agreement(it wasn't), it would be inhumane and I would condemn it. We haven’t passed a comprehensive immigration law since 1986, and the enforcement framework in use today arises from bipartisan legislation passed in 1986, major subsequent revisions in 1996, and layers of later executive discretion exercised by administrations of both parties. We had four years of functionally non-existent enforcement, and while I cannot ascribe motive, the natural outcome was to make later enforcement incredibly difficult -- a consequence that is now plainly visible. If you think those laws are unjust, argue that -- but don’t pretend this is some novel or uniquely partisan creation. |
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| ▲ | philipallstar 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | 1939 Germany wanted to do the invading, not combat it. | | |
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| ▲ | frumplestlatz 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yes. I realize I’m speaking with a Bluesky employee, and to be clear, you’re not really the audience to which I’m appealing. I don’t expect anyone working at the platform to disagree with the ideological framework under which it operates -- or even to recognize it -- and that’s fine. But let’s not pretend it’s neutral or balanced. |
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