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| ▲ | somenameforme an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Estimates for deaths we caused in Iraq range from the low hundreds of thousands to the millions, and that's going to be overwhelmingly civilians. [1] And given those are all very short time estimates (generally 2003-2007), and since many studies are from violent deaths only (excluding subsequent caused famine/disease/despair/etc) the millions is likely closer to the mark than not. Compare that to the death toll in any comparable war, event, or behavior that we politicize against domestically. Now imagine yourself seeing these things from the outside. That's how the world looks to the 'real' rest of the world, and not the ~15% and declining percent of the world that people call the 'rest of the world', when they mean Europe, the Anglosphere, and a handful of occasional oddballs like Japan or South Korea. And when you see this world through their eyes, you start to see an entirely different world, and it's the world that we are also starting to see now as all masks and pretexts have been coming off for years now. And in general I think that's a good thing. People can't form realistic and meaningful worldviews if they're stuck in a Marvel Comic Universe perspective of international relations. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War | |
| ▲ | tjroqfggyu56275 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Don't think anyone in the "global South", which have suffered from Western "civilizing missions" are surprised by this. It's kind of funny to see "anti-interventions" podcasters go full empire mode and justify literally colonization today. Hardly surprising, since most of these white nationalists love the British Empire's "oeuvre" in non-White countries (but somehow ignore the fact that their own country fought against its tyrannical rule). | |
| ▲ | asah an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | it's hard to put numbers to words, but I doubt "a significant portion of western society [is] outraged that anyone would protest it" - likely, it's very small but influential and/or wealthy. | | | |
| ▲ | fouc 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | There's a lot of non-obvious information or hidden information out there if you have no context. I mean, at the very least I can tell that there are a lot of wealthy and powerful people in western society that are invested in maintaining the innocence and primacy of Israel. “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.” -- Upton Sinclair. Where salary in that quote could be metaphorical, given there's other reasons like identity, beliefs, or politics. | |
| ▲ | it_learnses 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [dead] | |
| ▲ | chii 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | an0malous 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > How many children are dying/starved/killed in the sudan war? Why don't these same protests make the same kind of statements for that? Because the United States isn't funding and supplying the weapons for that atrocity, and we don't have American congressman and presidents visiting Sudan to pay homage, or have US officials saying "Sudan first" and "Sudan is our greatest ally" and putting the Sudanese flag in their offices. The US president's son-in-law isn't pitching investors on buying beachfront property in Sudan. > is very specifically socially engineered imho - because there's an actor behind it with purpose Who do you think is socially engineering these protests and how? There's far more evidence that Israel is manipulating public perceptions, but they're failing at it because there are too many alternative sources of media to control them all now. | |
| ▲ | bastawhiz 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | As a US taxpayer, I'm outraged that my tax dollars are used to fund the killing of children in Gaza. The political will of my elected officials could end the killing. To the best of my knowledge, I'm not in any way directly funding a war in Sudan. That doesn't mean I don't care, but I'm not being made complicit. | |
| ▲ | clipsy 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > How many children are dying/starved/killed in the sudan war? Why don't these same protests make the same kind of statements for that? Because no one in our society is defending, supporting, or funding the killing of children in the Sudan war. | |
| ▲ | EngineerUSA 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Sudan is a civil war. Ghaza is a genocide orchestrated by one group against another. It is completely different. The Syrian civil war claimed 500k lives. Civil wars are different and more complicated. In Ghaza, the bad actors are clear though. One of them is rightfully labeled for their war crimes. The other enjoys white house visits and the support of billionaires (Ackman), a diaspora that would excuse murder and cover for it. Just listen to bari Weiss, or those influencers that in Netanyahu's own words, must spread israeli propaganda at all costs. In a fair world, the israeli gov and the militias in ghaza would both be side by side at the Hague or in Guatanamo. The world does not work that way, for some are more equal than others, when rich backers in the West would put Israel first, and America and the free world last |
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| ▲ | sixo 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | What people feel about things is almost an entirely a function of their information environment, rather than the facts of the events themselves. Almost nobody truly aware of the number of slaughtered and starved Palestinian children would be "okay" with it; the people defending it are more-or-less viewing these events in terms so different from that that those basic facts cannot reach their understanding at all. | | |
| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Almost nobody truly aware of the number of slaughtered and starved Palestinian children would be "okay" with it A lot of people aren’t okay with it but also choose not to engage on it. | | |
| ▲ | EngineerUSA 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | If I ignore it, it is as if it never happened. Part of it is willful ignorance though. For Ross, he is deeply religious and views the security of Israel as that of the Jewish people (having a home to run away to if shit hits the fan). Children dying is a sacrifice he is willing to make. For the majority of America though, I believe they are a) either scared, because they saw a witch hunt orchestrated by people in power (like Ackman). If 3 female deans, many of them minorities, can get ousted at the whim of a billionaire, then the typical engineer or employee will be easily labeled antisemitic for defending those who are denied their rights to life and property, and will lose their job. Canary Mission and other groups are funded by successful billionaires like Ackman, Adelsons etc and harass students on campuses for protesting. They doxx them, blacklist them (no boss will hire someone on those letters, at the expense of being labeled an antisemite, and you are in it for a suprise once you notice how many of our tech companies and finance sectors are run by religious sociopaths). I know a few victims of those efforts. Interestingly, 90% of them are white middle class, and I think they are mostly women. Their courage is to be admired. Or b) people are okay with it, because Ghaza is so far away and because of Israel's blockade on the media covering ghaza (Israel has already killed more journalists last year than all other nations combined btw. I do not know of any democracy that does this). | | |
| ▲ | _bohm 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Not that I'm anyone important, but at this point if I google someone and they show up on the Canary Mission website, I'm inclined to hold them in higher regard. |
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