> any forced firings they will be well taken care of under Dutch labour laws

Yes. Notice period stays in tact. Transition payment is 1/3rd of a monthly wage per year worked. And then your unemployment runs for up to 24 months at 70% of your income capped at €4500. Unemployment benefits are unconditional until you find a new job.

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Freak_NL 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Unemployment benefits are unconditional until you find a new job.

They are quite conditional: you must be applying for a new job while receiving them, and after the first six months any job you can do is eligible (not just the jobs you would want to do). You must report your job applications to the unemployment agency, and you can get called in and cut off from benefits for not earnestly seeking a job.

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retired 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

That is what I meant with “until you find a new job”. You must indeed be actively looking for a job.

But they are unconditional in that they are not means tested or have other clauses that could cause you to not get paid. You do not have to eat your savings, house or car. You are allowed to keep those.

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cbolton 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I'm curious how that works in the extreme... Isn't prostitution legal in the Netherlands? A brothel can offer you a job and you have to accept?

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m000 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

"Any job you can do is eligible" is highly inaccurate. I went through this after my PhD funding in NL ran out, which is considered a layoff. I only had to demonstrate that I made some applications to relevant jobs. No pressure whatsoever to go work in some unrelated job.

Yes, the UWV [1] unemployment benefits are not perpetual (I don't recall the exact formula used to calculate the eligibility length). But even after your unemployment benefits stop, depending on the level of your savings, you may be eligible for receiving other benefits (e.g. health insurance and rent).

Overall, it is a very pro-worker system, with the major benefit of it being not "free money" (as US readers may assume), but the decreased leverage your employer has over you.

[1] https://www.uwv.nl/nl

	▲	consp 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Do note that you could be in the active group of an experiment if you had WW in the past 5-6 years. There was (is?) an experiment where they check some people less and even not force you to look but let you work it out on your own. > Overall, it is a very pro-worker system Having had to deal with parts of the Dutch system, I'm positive it's rigged against you. And you pay for it, it's literally a tax (WW premie, part of the "werknemersverzekeringen" aka employees insurance).

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consp 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Isn't prostitution legal in the Netherlands? A brothel can offer you a job and you have to accept?

It's in a somewhat comparable job but without regard for payment level or educational/promotional equivalence so you have to accept lower pay. The most extreme is a temp job but you have to be far gone to get there and even then there are limits.

Also, switching from a desk job to a physical job (which in this case is very physical) is not something the UWV (the goverment part which handles this) will try to bring up to a judge if you refuse as Dutch law has a "reasonability" principle and you can very easily argue that would be unreasonable.

The again, this is the UWV we are talking about. They task people with chronic fatigue syndrom to work for 20 hours a week in the fields because "their sheet says so".

The length of unemployment benefits is calculated in work years: 3 months are guaranteed, for every year worked you get 1 extra month up to 10, then 0.5 per year (changed in 2016 because the right has been in power for over 15 years).

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retired 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I doubt that you will end up in the red light district but it’s possible that a middle management position will end up in an Amazon distribution center as an order picker or has to harvest strawberries.

Not that bad and you might learn some Polish or Romanian while doing those jobs as you will likely be the only Dutch person there.

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joe_mamba 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

That's pretty generous, even for EU standards. In Austria for example, unconditional unemployment is 60% of your income and only lasting for a dozen or so weeks, after which you are forced to accept any job offer thrown at you or risk having your unemployment taken away.

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retired 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Unemployment benefits is something you build up during your career, not just your current employer. For each year in employment you get one month of unemployment. The limit is 24 months.

And with the current job market, someone with ASML on their resume probably isn't on the bench for more than six months.

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joe_mamba 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

>And with the current job market, someone with ASML on their resume probably isn't on the bench for more than six months.

I think that heavily depends. If they're just a laid off manager without a strong network or industry connections at other major semi companies, then they might be shit out of luck since in the current economy, there's little to no demand for companies to hire more management.

On the contrary, many companies now are laying of their own managers too and not hiring new ones. If they need management tasks they tend to give them to existing IC staff instead of hiring dedicated managers from outside, which IMHO might be a good thing.

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consp 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That changed in 2016 to 0.5 months per year.

	▲	retired 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		After the first ten years of employment. You also have CAOs (collective labour agreement) that are more favourable. It all depends on your work history, what CAOs you worked under and when you started work.

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portly 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The current job market for managers does not look great since Elon let that sink in.