It's not clear that anything will be kneecapped. You need more than a desire to not use these products, you also need a viable alternative. Using products from China or Russia probably isn't deemed viable if the concern is politics, which leads to a need for Europe or Canada to build alternatives. They have not been good at this for a long time, maybe that will change, but it's not clear that it will.

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tensor 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

There are plenty of viable alternatives. Perhaps not all are as polished as some of the mainstay US companies, but the funtionality is there. It's no surprise that people in the US are ignorant of the existence of the many excellent EU software companies and services.

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Imustaskforhelp 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

India.

Today India invited President of EU commission on its republic day & I feel like there are discussions on signing free trade agreement.

I was in my car watching it live when I recognized the President of EU commissioner and I was like hey!!

I feel like friendly relations of EU and India are definitely on the rise & I have said this previously as well and talked to my other cousins/family who works in Coding and most agree that a deeper India-EU ties are possible.

One thing we were discussing is if EU could directly invest funds in Indian companies instead of going through 10 layers of councils/commissioning companies but to people who want to either build private solutions (Preferably open source?)

I do feel like that's inevitable too. EU's financing is something which I have heard is tricky within EU itself but there are some recent initiatives to stream line it and perhaps India can even integrate into it if its actually net positive for India.

Overall I feel like I am pretty optimistic about India EU relations (though I feel like I have bias but what do people from EU think respectfully?,I'd be more than happy to answer as I talked to my developer cousin about it for almost 2 days on how EU India integration especially in tech feels so good and inevitable haha :>)

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Am4TIfIsER0ppos 11 hours ago | parent [-]

I can't wait to see how many indians we are going to be forced to import due to that "free trade deal". They must have looked at how well it went in canada and said among themselves "now that's how you destroy a country we gotta get some of that". [EDIT] Hopefully national politicians get balls, more balls, and tell their MEPs to vote against it like the mercosur deal.

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coffe2mug 10 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This BS should stop (even if you vote for AfD or National front)

It is so difficult we still to get a working visa into Western EU. The way this is done is by total bureaucratic nature of Ausländerbehörde.

When he was CTO from Netflix, Gaurav Agarwal Could not get a visa to relocate to Germany. (No more with Netflix)

So even of one has > €80K salary and working in Apple or MS hq in Munich it is pain in the arse.

On the other hand this is encouraging people to apply and get passports. I for one would have never naturalised as German if the residence permit was quick and easy.

In summary, there are encouraging people to migrate.

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jpadkins 10 hours ago | parent [-]

Then EU citizens should support undocumented immigrants, as we do in the US. It is inhumane not to give them full welfare.

	▲	coffe2mug 10 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		Is your first sentence sarcasm or you don't see news?
	▲	Imustaskforhelp 9 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		Sadly I would consider now that America's just not an ideal position for immigration right now and this will remain a scar for America imo. Many of people I know (or friends of friends/brothers) are migrating from America to either Europe or shifting back to India. I don't think that America can particularly do something about it. Trust's pretty fragile.

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pseudony 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What little immigration we have from India are highly educated and thus quite productive individuals.

You’re (deliberately?) confusing the issue with e.g. illegal immigration or asylum seekers who often come from poor, war-torn areas with little education and possibly a very different mind-set.

I haven’t been accosted by roving gangs of well-educated IT Indians, I find the thought funny ;)

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Imustaskforhelp 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

For what its worth, I have to mention that India losses more on this deal than Europe because India's actually for the first time iirc imo giving up tariffs or reducing them. India has the highest tariff rates for a developing country from the start (indiscriminant) and is only offering upgrades to EU mostly fwiw in terms of this free trade deal.

I have heard this deal be described as EU beneficiary from EU sources.

Ah yes, I feel like what you want for an EU is a connection with America which has been a very unreliable partner would even be an understatement in today's geopolitical environment.

It's saddening to see if you are from EU who actually believes so. I am more than happy to answer your queries in good faith but this just feels like pushing some of your own agenda or straight up racist.

We come with open arms even though the massacre of jallianwala bagh is still in our memories. There is just no question regarding the fact that EU primarily british forces had extracted immense wealth from India and India had to primarily rebuild it from scratch healing from the scars of its colonial past.

There's actually an internal pushback from some people i feel like who feel like EU is still imperialist & want to shut down this deal from India side given India hasn't lost much after the trump's tariffs compared to EU whose greenland was in some serious sovereign threats.

But I guess the point is that EU India deal is inevitable in this multi polar deal. India wants EU to be the financial hub where EU can then reinvest in India and India can create technological innovation.

I have tried to respond with as much calm as possible but I must admit that your message felt like a must admit,ragebait to me in start but I hope that this detailed message can help clear up on the details.

If you have any reasonable questions man, feel free to ask!

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coffe2mug 20 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Both may benefit. Some will lose. If benefits overweigh losses then ok.

Well Rapido bike means Auto-wallas are angry. That is reality.

The highest tariffs are holding India back. A decent original nike shoe is about €50 here but why it is Rs5000 there (with lower Purchasing power). Local businesses have too long bribed Indian politicians. Recently I replaced the gate of my house here in EU. It was 20 years old. No rust despite old. I remember the steel supplied by our companies is crap - we repaired our gate every few years. Or it was not properly painted.

Costs of computer etc are too high for any startup etc. and with our talent more cheaper imports from china would be great to build a local giant.

On the other hand our people do

- exploit Digital Ocean T-shirt give away to create stupid pull requests and burden maintainers in GitHub open source project

- curl dev stopped bug bounty due to many sending AI reports

- clone AOSP and IIT Chennai said it have created a independent OS.

Sabeer Bhatia (Hotmai founder) recently said we have become users not creators.

Even Ambani with all his money can't do a good tech company.

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oblio 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

You do know that the UK literally isn't in the EU, right? A lot of your rant is really weird.

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Imustaskforhelp 10 hours ago | parent [-]

I mean perhaps, yea I must've got sidetracked by India's colonial past but for the average Indian I would consider for that passage that they generally equate UK to be part of EU usually. (Perhaps from the pre-brexit era's or just in general)

I wouldn't consider it a rant per se but rather that India's trying to move towards an multi polar deal and EU and India actually has a more net negative and Indians are wary of this deal even more so but on aggregate the deal would be extremely beneficial if seen from both sides with reason.

Also isn't UK trying to pester back into the EU again. It's super complicated to follow even as someone who follows geo-politics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potential_re-accession_of_the_...

> I mean perhaps, yea I must've got sidetracked by India's colonial past but for the average Indian I would consider for that passage that they generally equate UK to be part of EU usually. (Perhaps from the pre-brexit era's or just in general)

When I started writing about jallianwala bagh I probably got distracted because I used to be part of drama club and we had this act when we were young and literally the amount of people dying and everything truly shocks one & genuinely disturbs one.

I recommend this documentary to know more about Jallianwala bagh massacre: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9JZJx67cvo

I think my point which kind of got muddied up is that India wants to cozy up to EU and build things together but not to UK so much. India's extremely sensitive regarding UK given its past and in this deal,is cautious about EU and UK making ties again or any such discussions too.

	▲	coffe2mug 35 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		I really think we (as NRI) should move on from using Jallianwala or whatever. This doesn't help. Don't use BS to justify. Every damn guy that get visa refused uses this and in a way insults those sacrifices. Come to reality. Present or at least last 10 years. Who did what? You need to fix your own country. Even if British didn't invade - the princely states of India were feuding. Fighting. If it was not one country then TN and Karnataka would have gone to war. UK were open minded to elect a non- white as PM in UK. Though he was very bad for for UK. Do some creative things instead of using colonial things. Nobody cares. If some from that family hate UK or west then why come and live a happy life here (being UK/EU citizens). As an OCI holder, I get better treatment at immigration than I was an Indian citizen. While lots of things exist like ISRO etc there is still abject poverty, pollution, health care issues. Yes, India sends talents. Myself living about 10 years here. But note. TCS etc employees gain more coming here than they contribute. Yes, skill shortage etc. at the end while using the fantastic TGV here in France - I am benefiting more than contribute despite working in a high tech scientific industry. Eventually Bihari in TN will say I did so much work in Coimabatore mills but you guys are treating me shit; and for the non-hindi speaking Tamil in Pune they treat like shit. If all these are better the internal economy will be great. On path to some self sufficiency. No. Instead you come here to insult current EU UK citizens. It is of no use. The point is even if Sundar Pichai was in India he would not have built a Google. You can be cautious but at the end people like Bhavish Aggarwal or biju or l&t CEO etc are the ones you get there. They don't give a shit about people. Until then people will try to move here. Fix that. Otherwise people will come here to work. Just 9-5. No sat/sunday work. No fking Manager would call you after office hours. (Again, there will be YouTube videos of NRI telling - it is better life in India than USA/EU. Yes, true. If you are 10%top earner in India or at the

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TulliusCicero 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Not sure why you're being downvoted, Europe has been mostly bad at software and services for a long time now. There's a reason Linus lives in Oregon.

There's always this occasional chatter about being more competitive, and certainly some good ideas -- for example, the Draghi Report -- but then nothing happens, or you get a few half measures at most.

I guess the one upside of Trump being such an aggressive jackass is that it might finally provide enough impetus for European countries to take further integration more seriously.

	▲	albuic 7 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		Europe has good software companies. It's just that the US has bigger VC funding which makes European companies unable to compete when US/EU companies are "fighting".
	▲	einr 9 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		There's a reason Linus lives in Oregon. What is the reason Linus lives in Oregon? By his own admission, 90% of his workday is reading and answering email. We have email in Europe, so that can’t be it.