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kakflelajf74 7 hours ago

Tiktok became a bigger national security risk after being sold than it was before.

hshdhdhj4444 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

All Americans are probably better off using Chinese apps that the Chinese government uses to snoop on them and Chinese are better off using American apps that the American govt uses to snoop on them than the opposite.

The impact the Chinese government can have on an individual American is minor compared to the US govt and the same goes for the American and Chinese govts on the average Chinese person.

lostlogin 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> The impact the Chinese government can have on an individual American is minor compared to the US govt

ICE are fighting hard to change this.

mystraline 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yep, and they won't work with each other, and thus provides a modicum of data safety due to opposing governments.

The real challenge to this is that most Chinese apps aren't in English.

banku_brougham 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

i been saying this

nikkwong 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

...Highly disagree. China can (and has) manipulate the hearts and minds of the American public—skewing their biases in a way that creates internal chaos and dissent, disrupting institutional order, and sewing distrust of thy neighbor. They've been doing this for at least a decade now, and have played a silent hand in reshaping American politics. If (when) a conflict arises, trust that they will use this tool to manipulate the electorate in a way that benefits them in a zero sum way.

coldtea 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

>China can (and has) manipulate the hearts and minds of the American public—skewing their biases in a way that creates internal chaos and dissent, disrupting institutional order, and sewing distrust of thy neighbor

Nothing a tin-foil hat can't prevent

As if the public needed any manipulation. You can just read what actual public figures, journalists, and such have been openly saying for the last 15-20 years...

When a long-time political player, wife of a President, and presidential candidate calls a big chunk of the population "deplorables", when opposing candidates call for the jailing or even shooting of their opponent, or when the current President is saying what he says and doing what he does, you need more to get "chaos" and "distrust of the neighbor"?

nikkwong 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

No tin-foil hat needed. There is published research documenting that this is happening [0] on certain topics and there is a lot of reason to believe it is happening in others. Yes, I'm not saying China is the only source of the state of our domestic discontent; but it's fuel to the fire and will be used against us at times in the future when we need national cohesion. See also [1] a 60 minutes episode on a related thread of China infiltrating the US in other ways.

[0] https://networkcontagion.us/wp-content/uploads/NCRI-Report_-...

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43vxbytjDSM&themeRefresh=1

SanjayMehta 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

A Tin Dome which might actually work.

nebula8804 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Outside competition allows progress because we have been shown time and time again that the US will just not solve its problems without outside pressure. I'd also argue that any other country in its position would act the same. For example when the USSR was actively competing with the US, they could easily lob a major criticism of the US in capturing 'hearts and minds' of other nations: "Look at how they treat their minorities. Do you really want to work with those people?"

Yes there were very active causes and groups in the US to correct this issue, but that outside pressure forced leadership to be nudged towards corrective action and I wonder if the USSR hadn't been there would we have gotten Civil Rights legislation passed when we did?

Maybe the same will happen with China showing the US how fast they can get stuff done and what they provide as benefits to their citizens vs a declining US. Already TikTok has helped Gen-Z realize how Israel gets so many benefits (universal healthcare, college tuition, benefits for birthing kids etc.) while the US is in massive debt and continues to send money to Israel. That continued propaganda may lead to an eventual backlash and subsequent reform.

etblg 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Damn, imagine if an Australian or a South African billionaire did that with big media companies, oh well, that's just a weird thought, nothing to take from that.

hwillis 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> skewing their biases in a way that creates internal chaos and dissent, disrupting institutional order, and sewing distrust of thy neighbor.

I don't really have respect for this idea; we do this to ourselves far more effectively than people who frankly have a pretty hamfisted cultural understanding- just as we have of china or russia.

IMO influence over real concrete choices is much more alarming. Someone with household-level information has an insane amount of advantage in an election. You can target politcal messaging street by street to play up the worst aspects of your opposed candidate and the least repulsive aspects of your own candidate.

But if you're in china, the most you can do is try to push towards whatever of the two candidates is least bad for you. And spoiler, zero american politicians are pro-china.

expedition32 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This is the difficulty with propaganda- you have to tailor it to a foreign audience but then the message is changed.

America has been trying to spread it's way of life for a hundred years. People liked the fridges and cars but never cared much for the Christianity and croony capitalism.

nikkwong 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> And spoiler, zero american politicians are pro-china.

..Other than, well possibly, Trump. Maybe not directly, but the Tiktok deal, withdrawing from the TPP, the eventual outcome of the trade war, the praise for Xi—all stands to benefit China at the expense of the US.

> I don't really have respect for this idea; we do this to ourselves far more effectively than people who frankly have a pretty hamfisted cultural understanding- just as we have of china or russia.

The two need not be mutually exclusive.

ulfw 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What conflict? If there is a conflict the whole world is fucked. I've only ever heard about conflicts from the Americans

golbez9 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

LOL!

blell 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Depends if you see more of a threat coming from China or Israel.

guelo 5 hours ago | parent [-]

100% Israel. China couldn't save tiktok but when tiktokers started criticizing Israel's actions in Gaza Israel got tiktok transferred to a zionist lighting quick with support from both American political parties and no 1st amendment concerns.

nebula8804 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Its been a while now and I've wondered if anyone has recorded any hard data in how the acquisitions has shifted the platform. I just hope that someone is collecting hard records so we can see the damage after everything has played out over time.

As far as I can tell at least among the American left, criticism of israel has become so commonplace and part of the culture that its become a "memeable" event at this point.

I wonder how the Israel lobby will manage to turn that ship around at this point?

krapp 3 hours ago | parent [-]

>I wonder how the Israel lobby will manage to turn that ship around at this point?

The effect of popular criticism of Israel in the US has been the normalization of mass censorship and deportation, and nil on Israeli policy or American support for it (other than being the catalyst for killing Kamala Harris' campaign.) The ship doesn't need to be turned around, it continues on its course unabated.

Last I heard Trump intends to pave Gaza over and sell the land for data centers to the Saudis.

nebula8804 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Thats a short term solution to stop criticism that has essentially put more fuel on the fire. Millenials are start to take the reigns and I don't see a strong pro-Israel coalition among their cohort yet. They are likely being groomed but I dont think it will be a clear transition. Anti-Israel candidates are making moves and occasionally willing seats. If this accelerates they will play an important role in the future of American politics.

>Last I heard Trump intends to pave Gaza over and sell the land for data centers to the Saudis.

Honestly anything is possible. Maybe they will continue unabated and finish their project before Trump kicks the can. Maybe this upcoming Iran 'adventure' will be a massive disaster and will lead to a step change in hatred of Israel and anyone who supports them. I just dont see any of the old propaganda used in Iraq working this time around.

Maybe Israel completes their complete expulsion of Palestinians and then forms a solid base as the center of the middle east with everyone else being a vassal state. Would they even need the US at that point?

api 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

All these big socials are horrible brain rotting addiction machines no matter who owns them.