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Hellenistic War-Elephants and the Use of Alcohol Before Battle(cambridge.org)
39 points by perihelions 6 days ago | 17 comments
ks2048 8 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Blog post by the author on seemingly-same topic [2020]:

https://www.badancient.com/claims/drunk-war-elephants/

gnabgib a few seconds ago | parent | prev | next [-]

(2023)

Hayvok 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> This article assesses whether Hellenistic war-elephants were given alcohol before battle…Unfortunately, despite the recent rise in scholarly interest on war-elephants, this issue remains overlooked.

This is the best abstract ever.

api 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I assumed this was going to be about how drunk you’d have to get to ride an elephant into battle.

mr_toad 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Or to stand in the way of one.

alephnerd 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This article overreads into the meaning of mast and matta. Mast just means overstimulated/excited, and in the context of an elephant would be the equivalent of using the word "spooked" but with a humorous ting to it. Indian epics like the Mahabharat and Ramayan were not written as historical treatise but also as entertainment.

The same way how Homer uses titillating speech in the Illiad or how Ferdowsi added out-of-this-world imagery in the Shahnameh (though Mahmud Ghazni stiffed him on this commission) is how similar additions are in those epics.

Also, Sanskrit manuscripts from before Xuangzang can be found - they are just untranslated, and at Indian Sanskrit universities like Rashtriya Sanskrit Sansthan and Sampurnanand Sanskrit Vishwavidyalaya, or archives like Acharya Shri Kailashsuri Jnanamandir and Saraswati Mahal Library, but these often only allow members of Dharmic faiths or from that background to enter.

This is why most Sanskrit scholarship is centered in India, Sri Lanka (where Anagarika unified Buddhism with Hindutva), and Thailand, where Maha Chakri Sirindhorn - who is a devout Buddhist and still active Sanskrit (and Pali) academic - has personally sponsored Sanskritology, Indology, and Buddhist studies for decades. When Sanskrit texts get translated into a modern language, it tends to be in Hindi or Thai as a result.

In English, NYU had the Clay Library but Gombrich passed away, and at Harvard, Narayana Murty (Infosys founder and Rishi Sunak's father in law) is funding the Murty Library, but both are barely scraping the top of the barrel.

iamshs 3 hours ago | parent [-]

>"but these often only allow members of Dharmic faiths or from that background to enter"

Interesting way to write that they practice Brahminical caste discrimination. Even more interesting how this is called Dharma lol

karim79 23 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

One man's drunk elephant is another's freedom fighter.

johnea 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> a longstanding association of elephants and alcohol in popular thought

What? the hell?

Maybe not watching television for over 20 years has left me more out of touch with "popular thought" than I realized...

morshu9001 24 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Maybe the Delirium Tremens beer brand from Belgium?

avadodin 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Didn't Dumbo get drunk in the eponymous movie?

You don't get more pop than that.

throw-qqqqq 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/499983

> The suggestion that the African elephant (Loxodonta africana) becomes intoxicated from eating the fruit of the marula tree (Sclerocarya birrea) is an attractive, established, and persistent tale

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/rsbl/article/16/4/2020007...

> Possibly the most iconic is the story of African elephants (Loxodonta africana) and marula fruit. According to this widespread lore, elephants across Africa preferentially feed on the fallen, fermenting fruit of the marula tree (Sclerocarya birrea), becoming intoxicated

nomel 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

When I was a kid, animal documentaries usually had a little bit on animals getting drunk from fermented fruit laying on the ground. Drunk elephants were often the highlight, because a stumbling, drunk, elephant is pretty entertaining to watch (although their legal drinking age seems to be MUCH lower than with human societies!).

jghn 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I remember my grandma doing a drunken "dance of the pink elephants", whatever that is, in the mid-70s. This has been a thing for a while

theyneverlear an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Out of touch? Just say "dumb". It's well known animals and especially elephants get their kicks from rotting fruits.

doobiedowner 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seeing_pink_elephants

yzydserd 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Hence Chang Beer.