| ▲ | Extremophile molds are invading art museums(scientificamerican.com) |
| 71 points by sohkamyung 5 days ago | 30 comments |
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| ▲ | joshuamcginnis 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| I've isolated many xerophilic molds, mostly from caves around the US. As the article stated, the most you can do is spray ethanol on the article and wipe it down. That'll kill most microbes and prevent sporulation. I'll have to think on this but I don't think there are any easy solutions other than just routinely cleaning and decontaminating the articles (at least the ones that can tolerate it). |
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| ▲ | modeless 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | How about gamma irradiation? | | |
| ▲ | sanjayjc 38 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Mentioned in the article as having limited applicability: "When a mold’s takeover of an artifact must be stopped, there’s gamma radiation—pelting it with electromagnetic energy from radioactive decay to kill fungi and spores. But this technique penetrates deeply and can extensively damage materials." |
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| ▲ | kevindamm 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Would a high enough dose of UV also work? I suppose it would ruin most pigmentation too, though. | | |
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| ▲ | bell-cot 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Idea: For long-term storage & preservation of rare "treasures" (whether they be museums pieces, library books, national archive documents, or whoever), invest in oxygen-depleted facilities. At low-enough O2, nothing aerobic - be it bacteria, mold, bug, rodent, or whatever - can grow. Most can't even live. Gradual oxidation damage (paper turning yellow then brown, etc.) ceases. And disastrous fires can't happen. |
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| ▲ | culi 9 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | xerophiles can also be anaerobic. Certain Aspergillus can even show certain adaptations for anaerobic conditions. I wonder if we would just be pushing their evolution in that direction EDIT: Aspergillus penicillioides is mentioned in the article and it can survive in both anaerobic and aerobic conditions | | |
| ▲ | riwsky 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Damn, wait: you mean the random HN commenter didn’t magically solve a difficult problem that has long-confounded experts, simply by bringing their unique insights and thirty seconds to bear? |
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| ▲ | Dave_Rosenthal 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The car guys have done it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stfjVt0AbFU | |
| ▲ | giraffe_lady 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | From the perspective of an archive, library, or museum preservation isn't really the goal in itself, just a strictly mandatory prerequisite. The pieces have to be made available to researchers (and depending on the institution the public) for the archive to be able to consider itself fulfilling its mission. There is kind of a cost/preservation/accessibility triangle with curatorial preservation, and museums already normally choose storage that is somewhere other than the most expensive/best preservation corner of that triangle. Oxygen-depleted facilities significantly extend that corner, but if we're already not using what we have there then it may not be a useful addition. Low-oxygen environments also have their own preservation issues. I'm not actually a museum curator so I don't know the specifics. But it is a very complex and old discipline and they've tried just about everything. The problem is usually funding, which unfortunately boils this whole thing down to another boring "you can't solve social problems with technical solutions." | | |
| ▲ | baggy_trough 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | What is the social problem you refer to? | | |
| ▲ | saintfire 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | Presumably society doesn't deem preservation to be worth any cost. | | |
| ▲ | autoexec 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | There are other considerations as well. We could probably preserve works for longer if we kept them sealed away in darkness, but we value these works in part because of what we get by experiencing them. What we get out of them as artistic works makes them worth taking such good care of as opposed to just being something that's really really old. Society wants to see these things, and learn from them, even though every moment they spend out in the open exposes them to more harms. We're fortunate that digitizing has come such a long way. We can preserve and even recreate a lot of things long after the physical objects themselves are gone. It's not the same as having the originals, but at a certain point the reproductions are all we'll have left. | |
| ▲ | baggy_trough 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | That's what I was wondering. We can't redirect the entire output of society towards museum conservation, so some tradeoffs will have to be made. That isn't a problem, just reality. | | |
| ▲ | chasil an hour ago | parent [-] | | When a large book turns into an epub/zip that is under 100kb, what makes the paper so important? When you add up all the books that were required for our careers, would they be a megabyte? The little that we understand is uncomfortably summarized this way. |
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| ▲ | thaumasiotes 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | It will make retrieval challenging and dangerous. |
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| ▲ | culi 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The most interesting part of the article to me was that there's something akin the dysbiosis seen post-antibiotics in the human gut > Through the 1970s conservators deployed biocides, chemicals—including antibiotics and formaldehyde—that wipe out microbes indiscriminately. [...] But just as broad-spectrum antibiotics can wreak havoc on the human gut by eliminating good bacteria along with the bad, biocides can open the door to even more harmful microbes by clearing out the competition. > Scientists think decades of treatment with biocides in Lascaux led to the proliferation of a fungus called Fusarium solani that covered the cave like snow in a matter of days. The biocides are also thought to have allowed antibiotic-resistant strains of bacteria and fungi to grow unchecked in the cave, as well as pigmented fungi that left permanent dark stains on the Ice Age images. In Europe, the use of biocides is now tightly restricted. This seems to have ramnifications far beyond the museum: > Xerophilic molds can colonize human tissue in immunocompromised people—doctors found colonies of Aspergillus fumigatus, another mold involved in museum infestations, in one Danish woman’s brain, chest and lungs after she had been treated for leukemia in the contaminated wards. |
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| ▲ | 1970-01-01 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Submerge them in drawers filled with Argon or Xenon gas when filing them away. This would also help to fireproof the artifacts. |
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| ▲ | WalterBright 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Should be dropping packets of extremophiles into the atmospheres of the other planets to see if anything takes hold. I.e. practice panspermia. |
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| ▲ | ianburrell an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | That destroys any possibility of finding out if there was or is life on other planets. Life that would be better evolved to handle the conditions. It is also unlikely to do anything. The conditions are well beyond anything on Earth. Mars is near vacuum; life has survived in vacuum but didn't grow. Titan has liquid organics, but is really cold and microorganisms don't really handle hydrocarbons. | |
| ▲ | triceratops 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I didn't downvote you. However, there are ethical and moral quandaries to doing that. What if you accidentally wipe out existing, undetected life on that planet? You aren't going to see anything "take hold" on a human timescale. Evolution takes place over geological time. By the time there's something to observe, there might be no one to observe it. Or all knowledge of the experiment might be lost. | |
| ▲ | WalterBright 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I know this is an unpopular idea. But it's the right thing to do. |
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| ▲ | eigencoder 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| "stigma and climate change have fueled their spread" vomit |
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| ▲ | defrost 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Not vomit, xerophilic mold infestations. The stigma they refer to is the reluctance of museum boards and higher ups to publicly admit they have a problem with their storage. |
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| ▲ | proee 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| I've had to deal with mold more than I care to discuss. The key is to keep humidity down (relative to temperature). There is a concept of "Days till Mold" growth. Once you're past this number all bets are off. Here is a chart that shows Days to growth. If museums can stay in the "no risk" zone then artifacts should be good. If they fall outside that zone, then artifacts are at risk. https://energyhandyman.com/knowledge-library/mold-chart-for-... Example: At 85'F and 84% Humidity, it will take 7 days for mold to grow into your nostrils and reach your brain. |
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| ▲ | Raidion 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I'm not sure you read the article, these are molds that love low humidity. Controlling for humidity made these environments more attractive, not less. | |
| ▲ | hex4def6 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The article is literally about how the efforts to keep humidity down have resulted in the growth of these extremophiles. |
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