I call this take pseudo-intellectual indulgence form, so called, academic intelectuais.

Lord of the Rings is very much English Literature, and the biggest epic form the 20th century and has none of that. Ditto for Harry Poter (I’m not saying Harry Potter is on the same level of literary grandeur as LOTR, but it’s still an important epic series for newer generations).

You can always find examples for one side or the other of the argument. But, of course, only “social” scientists would be tick enough to claim some clear divide here as it suits their argument.

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5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

[deleted]

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tokai 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

What are you talking about? Frodo is exactly the kind of reluctant hero that Adams is talking about here.

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CollinEMac 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I don't think Adams is talking about how reluctant the hero is but about failure and misfortune.

Frodo definitely doesn't want to be there but he is far from being a failure. He saves Middle-earth, goes home to the Shire and saves that too, and is regarded as such an incredible mortal that he's invited to live in Valinor with the elves (this is a very big deal and I believe has only ever happened for Frodo and his buddies).

The same goes for Harry Potter. He's a loser at the beginning but after going to Hogwarts he's very much a hero that saves the day by being good at everything and exceptionally brave.

Also, I'd say there are plenty of reluctant heroes in American literature and film. Luke Skywalker hesitates to go save Leia in the first film, Spider-man straight up quits being Spider-man multiple times, John McClane just happened to be there when terrorists attack.

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5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[deleted]

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wtcactus 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

There’s absolutely no nihilism about Frodo. Not there isn’t any acceptance of pre determined fate when it comes to save Middle Heart.

LOTR is not empty, nor nihilist. It’s got many heroes, big and small, that fully embrace their part and fight against insurmountable odds with no expectation or any reward other than knowing they did the right thing.

The text is trying to tell us that English heroes are the exact opposite of that description.

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onraglanroad 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I don't think LOTR supports your case at all.

I guess Frodo is the main hero. He is left the ring and is forced to leave his home. His shortcut through the old forest nearly kills the entire party until he's rescued by Tom Bombadil. He then nearly dies in the barrow until he's rescued again by Tom.

He doesn't know what to do at Bree until Strider helps him. He succumbs to the temptation to put on the ring at Weathertop and then becomes a burden to the rest until Rivendell.

He doesn't know how to get into Mordor until Gollum helps him. He gets stung by Shelob and captured by orcs and it's only because Sam took the ring that the whole mission isn't blown.

He runs out of strength climbing Mount Doom and again he's saved by Sam carrying him. When he gets to the Cracks of Doom he fails to destroy the ring and is saved by Gollum attacking him.

And even back in the Shire, he can't settle and ends up leaving.

He's just not a very heroic figure and more affected by circumstance, continually requiring rescue. Maybe a bit more like Arthur Dent than it first appears. :)

	▲	starlight_nomad 4 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		Indeed, I think what Frodo would like most is for it all to just end. Exactly as Adams said of Dent when discussing his motivations/desires with Hollywood producers.
	▲	wtcactus 3 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		I disagree, he is extremely courageous. The fact that he does it not out of some sense of innate heroism and adventuring desire makes him even greater. He's not there due to anything else other than is sense of right and wrong. There are several heroes in LOTR: - The more "heroic" archetype of Aragorn - The flawed character of Boromir that atones himself for his sins with one last heroic stand - The unwilling but ultimately acceptance of Frodo - The more laidback silly courage of Merry and Piping - The devoted courage of Sam - Even Galdalf, when he faces that fiery beast (I don't remember the name right now) and Sauruman. - And there are many side characters that also fit the role (like the Rohirim) It is truly a tale full or heroes and several acts of great courage. Many of them might not have gotten into it willingly, but they surely took on the role seriously and honorably.

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arethuza 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

As Tolkien said: “My ‘Sam Gamgee’ is indeed a reflexion of the English soldier, of the privates and batmen I knew in the 1914 war, and recognized as so far superior to myself.”

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tokai 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Nihilism is the bad interpretation from someone the slashdot user met. Read the text again.

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wtcactus 5 hours ago | parent [-]

I’m addressing all the claims.

You mention Frodo is exactly the kind of reluctant hero the text talks about. Really? The brotherhood of the ring starts exactly when nobody is expecting or asking Frodo to step up, and he, a little hobbit, shouts above a fighting crowd : “I will take the ring to Mordor!”.

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onraglanroad 4 hours ago | parent [-]

That didn't happen in the book. Everyone is silent and eventually Frodo speaks up with dread and a feeling of inevitability.

	▲	mnw21cam 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Though I do not know the way.